February 16, 2003
From the desk of Jane Galt:Public Service Announcement
I have a little anger I need to work out right now. You -- the ones who've been emailing me for the last several days -- you know about that. You've been mad since 2000, haven't you, mad with the blind impotent rage of a Republican ca. 1997, and thanks to your flood of emails, I got to share.
I just deleted a large number of them. Thanks to everyone who made my President's Day Weekend something special. You're doing a winning job of arguing your side -- I've always said that if you want to convince people to eschew violence, you should start out your communication by comparing them to Hitler and liberally lace all correspondance with pornographic suggestions. It helps, of course, if you can accuse them of advocating things they didn't say, and if you can throw in gratuitious references to their alleged support of military actions that took place when they were in grammar school. But mostly, I think, what really sells it is the cussing.
I'm generally suspicious of people who say "The [left/right] is a bunch of [hypocrites/malefactors/loonies], while the [right/left] is all that is finest in humanity", but if y'all are representative of what the left has been producing since we parted ways, I can honestly report to the right half of my readership that y'all are going to be in power for a long, long time.
I'm not responding to your deliberate attempt to cast me as Bull Connor in your own private resistance fantasy in which you singlehandedly save the people of Iraq and the world by -- agitating to keep Sadaam Hussein in power. If you can't read and comprehend multi-syllabic words strung together in a long row, this is probably not the correct forum to remedy the situation.
I grew up in a political family, and I spent what felt like a long time on the left, and more time in the libertarian wing. I don't get angry about politics, and I don't succumb to the tempting belief that my opponents are venal and/or stupid, but in the case of my correspondants, I'll make an exception. Many of you seem to have come via a few high-profile lefty blogs, and all I can say is, to the folks who sent them, your readership is certainly something special. And I never, ever want to hear another lefty blogger talking about how the reason the left is special is that they're nicer human beings, okay? I haven't heard language like that used by your readership since my youthful infatuation with Henry Miller. And at least Miller could spell. If any of y'all are reading this: a handy rule to use with four-letter rules is that when you're done writing them, they should only have four letters.
The nice thing is that I don't have to stay mad. This is a voluntary thing, and right now I don't feel much like volunteering. I think I'll withdraw to the wings so y'all can take your arguments to like-minded folks who think trading epithets is a good way to pass the time. The only things I want to say right now involve language that I won't use in public. I'm taking the controversial posts down and going off blog until I feel better.
-- 30 --
Posted by Jane Galt at February 16, 2003 11:11 PM | TrackBack | Technorati inbound linksJane/Megan:
You're Right.
Enjoy some well earned time off. Kick back and have a drink.
But hurry back.
Regards
Chas
PS: Is Mindles still afloat?
Megan, take a breather. And don't let the vitriol of those losers get to you.
And keep up the good work. I eagerly await your return.
J
Megan,
There's nothing, really, to add except another "hurry back because you are most assuredly missed," and that you may ultimately wish to change e-mail addresses and disable comments. If folks want to offer their opinion of your opinions, let 'em maintain their own damned blog.
Chin up Megan. I've undergone a similar transformation over the years. I voted for mostly Democrats in my 20's to voting for mostly Republicans in my late 20's early 30's. I find it laughable when the political right is referred to as "angry", "mean" and "hateful". While there is certainly some of that to be found on the extreme right, I've found that there is far, far more thoughtless hate and vitriol from the left than from the right. Those who would like to see the causes of the left advanced really do make horrid spokesmen for their cause. The more I hear them talk/write, the more distance I want to put between myself and their message. They're only hope right now is the ignorance that pervades much of American society. I can only hope those folks stay home on election days in the future.
Megan,
I'm saddened, as I've just found your site. But I'll be content reading the archives until you return. True ... the double-standard of people such as these is depressing; luckily, you don't dwell in their world.
I say you should name names, my sweet, and we'll show them what angry, mean, and hateful really mean.
Megan,
Go to the window. Look outside. Look at all the white stuff. Look how calm and peaceful everything is (now that the really crazy SUV drivers have all spun out).
There, don't you feel better?
I'm sure I'm not the only fan who's snowbound and looking for some good blogging!
Okay, you can take a day or two off, but no more than that; your public is waiting!
Happy blizzard,
M/J,
I like coming to this page precisely b/c you do not get emotional about things, choosing to engage in reasoned debate even when those on the other side do not. I think it was Bertrand Russell who said that, when one is emotional about a topic of discussion, it is a sure sign that he/she has departed from reasonable discourse in is speaking from emotionally held biases (I know, not mmuch of a paraphrase, but you get the point). I am sorry you have had to deal with those who brutalize a rational person such as yourself for no other reason than their seething hatred of self and the success of others. Hopefully you can feel better in the knowledge that some of us recognize your virtues.
Feel better.
I'd just like to add my voice to those who are hoping you'll be back soon. I will say also that I think the reason you make some people so angry is exactly because you write in a well-reasoned, factual manner. Your reasonableness often leaves your opponents with only two choices: take the high road and concede that you have a point, or stew in impotent fury and vent some of it in an email to you. So maybe it's just a sign that you're right on track -- if you weren't, no one would be angered by what you write.
I work at the University of Michigan and I am a graduate student. I endure this abuse constantly. If the only arguements you have are name calling you stopped thinking long ago. Hang in there girl-I think your great!
Buck up, girl!! I know that I am winning the argument when the other side gets all red faced and snotty. It is a sure sign that their position is augered into the ground. By the way, what were those comments that got to them? I hope to get a chance to read them, perhaps in a few days when the sun comes out.
Take a break but, please, come back soon! These yammering vermin should be beneath your contempt.
Nothing irks vermin like an exterminator who keeps using smarter mousetraps, and it sounds like you have some highly irritated mice running frantic circles in your inbox.
Hope you'll be back around soon but in the meantime, get away from the computer for a while and give yourself a well-deserved rest. I've left some of my favorite sites for up to a week at a time, on occasion, when issues were getting to me. It's good to give your perspective a hard reboot now and then :-)
And in the meantime, just take backhanded pleasure in one thing: Your virulent detractors have to live with themselves, and that's a worse punishment than anything you could possibly hand them.
why use email when there's comments? email can be traced back, whereas ips can't be (if you're not directly connected...)
we love you.. or at least i love you, and mindles (not in THAT way.. not that there's anything wrong with it...)
remember, being a chicago kid means you'll always attract this kind of crap (and congrats to those prominent lefty blogs, apparently their readers are meaner than they are, which is an accomplishment *cough atrios, rittenhouse, du *cough)
enjoy your break, throw some snowballs at the leftists (loosely packed, wouldn't want to hurt anyone.. no ice balls)
and maybe check out a home depot or lowe's to see how big a 2x4 is (i thought you were being kind of wimpy with suggesting it, but apparently opinions vary)
in case you need to help someone out of the snow... rock the car back and forth (with engine and bodies in concert), don't spin the tires, press gently on the gas... you'd think everyone would know this, but i had to help a ridiculous amount of people at big bear in california (you drive to a ski hill knowing nothing about how to drive in snow??? fing californians)
ps... fing just helps avoid annoying people who hate bad four letter words (sorry... i'm being an idiot)
come back!
Sorry it all got to you. I'm sure you know rationally that it is the nutburgers who write the trash; those of us who admire your writing tend to just, well, quietly read it.
Thanks for making the Web interesting, and remember that you have quiet well-mannered allies as well as foul-mouthed enemies out here.
there's no call for anyone of either side to use vitriolic invective...if you can't argue the points and not insult the writer, you have no business in adult discourse. but the left does not hold the patent on rude and immature behavior. on the comment sections to this very page i have been called very uncivil and unclever names simply for stating my case. but megan, remember the supreme court decision in sticks, stones, et. al. v. names (1973). buck up, kid, and rise above the fray. don't sink to that level.
A friend of mine once remarked that "mind-numbingly stupid asshole" is a category more fundamental than left or right. Alas, he was right. Jane, sorry you had some run-ins with some of that species. Take the time that's necessary to make it feel more rewarding than draining.
Pity we can't readily set up the All M.-N.S.A. forum and just let them go at each other. Obviously a bunch of intelligent, articulate, thoughtful left-wing bloggers are running into the same sorts of jerks, so it's not like there'd be any shortage of supply.
Hey, I'm a Political Science student. I couldn't get a second date until I gave up going out with Political Science majors. People who have emotional attachments to ideas cannot, - CANNOT, be reasoned with. I tried for many years, to no end and much frustration.
So don't try. Just relax and remember that these people will never, never be in charge. They do not matter. Extremists, by their nature, are marginal souls who replace any hope of progress for their ideals with purity of thought and a hatred for any opposition. This prevents them from ever making enough friends to actually make a difference. Who is really going to be convinced by a bunch of invective?
If the objective is to change people's minds, rather than showing what side one is on, it seems to me that swearing is rather pointless. On the other hand, the intimidation factor of a rapidly filling in- box could ensure a captive audience by silencing all opposition. By, say, making rude remarks loudly and often on a weblog until the blogger gives in to idioterrorism.
Don't give in to idioterrorists. Be strong. Delete the trolls.
Megan,
I am sorry that the swarm of mental midgets has driven you from your blog, and hope that it won't be long before your grace us again with your words of wisdom/random observations (select one or both).
I have seen this before - it appears to be a common blogosphere phenomenon. To write a blog, it seems to me, requires putting part of yourself in the public view. But you don't have to leave yourself open to the attacks of your mental and moral inferiors.
I'm sure there are email filtering programs you can use to get rid of the hate mail - get one. Then come back. Otherwise the midgets win. Your true friends will still be here.
Come back soon! The only thing that rankles a little is that, by taking down your comments and going silent, you've given the people who sent you hate-mail exactly what they wanted. Now they'll have every incentive to try to silence you next time you say something they don't like.
Don't let the idiots get to you, please. Please come back, and soon.
Jane-
Idiocy is by nature impersonal. It's got nothing to do with you, and vice versa.
Now, to pirate someone else's post:
Go to the window. Look outside. Look at all the white stuff. Don't you realize that it's pure snow? Do you have any idea what all that is worth?
Some people are idiots. Take joy in the fact that you're not one of them. Come back when you're ready.
Dave Perron
Jane, let's laugh and rejoice. People like that are doomed to eternal irrelevance. Clearer heads and finer minds will prevail! Just don't stay away too long. If you do, the "errorists" will have won!
A good book, some warm cider, and a dark computer can be great medicine. Watch the snow and take it easy. Your faithful readers will patiently await your return.
I just put some $$ in your tip jar. I figure you were attacked because you were drawing fire for those of us who don't blog. Think of it as hazard pay or something.
Gave me a moment to reflect though... The activity of donating is simpler than the activity of spelling out four letter words. (two clicks vice five keypresses.) Yet despite the rather impressive total in your tip jar, I rather suspect that more people Tirade than Tip. Curious commentary on the human condition.
You do a splendid job. I most certainly appreciate your efforts. Hurry back.
Megan...don't give up blogging!...
We need people out there that can discuss the issues calmly and analytically. You're the site I come to after Instapundit and Lilecks.
Keep up the good work, and don't let the hate get you down.
No need for me to chime in here, is there?
Well, guess I will anyway: come back when you're ready, Megan: you will be missed.
-NZB
The more shrill, invictive, and mean spirited they get, the more it becomes apparent that their losing. Chin up, I had my 2x4 handy against those losers.
I don't claim moral superiority. I'll just claim to be the one left standing after all is said and done
Megan:
I admire your writing and your approach to life and the issues of the day. Keep talking to us!
Please come back to us, Megan. There are a lot more nice people in the blogosphere that love reading your work than there are jerks who send hatemail. I hope the minority of (admittedly loud) jerks won't end up taking you away from the rest of us.
I recommend getting PopFile, a mail filter that you can train to weed out the cursing email. It's at popfile.sourceforge.net; the current version is not as reliable as I'd like, but it's still a terrific program.
On the larger issue of hate mail, my theory is that the Left is angry because they are not able to argue well on substance. I feel like I have to avoid political conversations with my Lefty friends, because all they want to do is recite their slogans. They've stopped listening to the other side, because they are afraid of what they might hear.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
Don't worry - make yourself a scotch on the
rocks, and put on some Louis Armstrong. It
always helps.
Illigitimi Non Carborundum Est!
What they want is to drive people from the field of debate with a torrent of bile, invective, and spite, shouting down any disagreement (while crying about how "dissent" of their type is being "crushed").
(This also illustrates one of the great truths of life: those on the left who define themselves a priori as the good, humane ones who care about people often use that as an excuse to treat actual people like dirt; after all, they're the good people - feel their goodness wash over you in a wave - so anything they do to advance the cause of The Movement in the face of its opponents - who by definition must be scum because of their opposition to the march to a more "progressive" society - is acceptable. Especially the sort of hate they accuse those who do not share their world view of harboring.)
It's an orchistrated campaign aimed precisely at crushing the spirit of anyone who deviates from their world view. So I'll close as I started:
Illigitimi Non Carborundum Est.
Jane,
I'm just agreeing with everyone else. You are smart and funny, a joy to read. Those folks just tear down; ignore them. They really aren't worth your notice. You're doing something positive, contributing informed, intelligent analysis -- something they can't do. Hope you come back soon.
"Look, they write their message with crayons. We use fine-point quills." - Mario Cuomo
:roll:
Wil Wheaton was whining about hate mail last week. I told him to quit whining and I'm telling you the same. Get your ass back in gear and up the volume. Vituperative responses like you've been getting only mean that you're having an effect, so don't quit now.
On the larger issue of hate mail, my theory is that the Left is angry because they are not able to argue well on substance.
I see. Fascinating theory.
And who decides they can't argue well on substance? You?
And what explains the angry Right?
Did you come up with this like you did with your comments about Krugman and Marxism in your "Idiotarians" post?
Jane, you don't have to face nastiness head-on.
Just delete all e-mail that looks like flame missives, or get them screened so that you can deal with e-mail from 'rational' fans, readers, etc.
I've gone through the same thing recently. Since September or so, when it became apparent that I had made a full transformation from the left to the right, my hate mail has more than doubled. Many times I thought of giving up blogging because I can't stand the vitriolic mail and the threatening comments. But if we gave up, Megan, that would be two voices silenced. Do we really want to give them that?
I reply to some of the mail on my site, some I just delete because it's too hateful to look at again. I don't want to rehash all the sordid details right here, but suffice it to say that I've been reduced to tears a number of times.
Please email me if you want to talk about it.
GT: You've got exactly zero class. Cad.
Otherwise, Megan, don't stop kicking against the pricks. They will always show up anyway, evidently.
Sure, there are people on the Right who are unable to talk about something without letting emotion get involved. And yeah, people can make their own decisions about who can or can't argue well. Especially in their own forum. GT, you have to see that your post is crap. I hope it doesn't get deleted. It is an example of what everyone in the comments section is talking about.
I've been through the same, since I started blogging back in 2000. It comes and goes, and the good mail makes you forget the bad. Just had a vicious left/right war/anti-war fight with my best friend from high school last night. I was her maid of honour a few years back. I have outgrown my knee-jerk liberalism, but she is still an unreconstructed, Yankee bashing socialist. For her/them, it is all about feelings rather than fact, unless those 'facts' come from Moore or Chomsky. We are on the right side of history, no pun intended. Please come back soon, but DO take a break first. You've earned it and your writing and thinking will be even better for it. An old editor told me you're not a real writer until you make a few enemies. :-)
I just hit the tip jar. Money talks. This site is very valuable to me. Hope you come back soon Jane.
Jane,
I have read you blog occasionally for sometime. I don't agree with some of the things you say, and I do agree with others. That's the way of things.
Regardless of what I think of each post I would not dream of sending you (or any blogger) hatemail. Why? Because that childish and pathetic which I am not.
Remember the old saying 'empty wagons make the most noise'
I see. So if you disagree with the Right, that is the definition of crass?
My, that makes things quite simple for all.
Jane/Megan,
I rarely if ever post here, but I'm a daily reader. I certainly understand the need to take a break, but I wanted to let you know you have one more reader who enjoys what you have to say and finds it thought-provoking.
Take care of yourself.
GT, disagreeing is not the problem. Hardly any two people can agree on everything. But the manner in which the debate is carried out is important, and face it, the Left in general has not been able to keep it civil. Take you for instance. your posts are dripping with sarcasm. You could make your point without doing that, and people would listen. Instead, we see that you have nothing to say, but insist on saying it. Sadly, you are not an isolated case.
Megan,
I dont usually post since most of my thoughts have already been said with more eloquance that I could impart.
I don't think I need to tell you that chasing you off gives them the appearance of "winning".
FALSE! We know there can be no meaningful dialog in a vacuum, which is what those losers have between their ears.
That said, a little time off is good. Relax,enjoy,
and come back to us STRONG.
Megan, I hope I speak for many silent readers who agree with and support you. Come back soon!
PWH, STW, GBY!
Chris
Delete the trolls. But post their addresses (and header information) first. Trolls are sensitive to daylight, after all.
Yes, the manner in which it is carried out is important.
So why doesn't the Right begin by not posting such silly arguments like "The Left can't argue on substance"? Once you start down that road everything else falls apart.
It is particularly cynical of A. Kling whose blogging on Idiotarian Economics was shown here only a few weeks ago to be full of errors and outright misrepresentations, including completely taking a post of Krugman's out of context and showing a deep misundertsanding of what Marx said (as shown by d^2).
Yes, Jane is right that there is a lot of vitriol in the blogging/commentary world.
But this applies to BOTH the Left and the Right.
By the way sarcasm is not the same as insults.
No, Jane, please don't stop! If they silence your voice, the terrorists will have won.
Megan- I have an email political group populated by a couple of types that have apparently been writing to you. Amazing to me how these otherwise intelligent people (yes they are), when arguing about politics, render themselves sub-adolescent.
Everyone on the right is stupid, selfish, racist and mean. Non-lefties want to despoil the environment and ruin life for future generations. And yes - when all else fails, claim that those on the other side are saying things that they never ever said - if it aids you in winning your argument.
Yeah, I get truly annoyed myself at times. Then I remind myself that they resort to such tactics because real substantiation for their positions simply ain't there!
Think about THAT and cheer up!
Jane, I'm sure I've read your blog a couple of times but only link through Reynolds or Green. And only to fill in the quiet moments at work. Don't let the sloppy seconds in too deep. I used to read the crep at 'smirking chimp' and reply with my gung ho military brat southern white boy conservative innocence. And have been severely chastised for my responses. But I've learned. Now, I just disguise my responses as an innocent liberal and they just don't get it. So perhaps you can rest and joy in the knowledge that at least there is an army of one or more out there giving back to the liberal cretins some of their own spew. And they also don't get that my 'handle' is an acronym claiming to be 'one for whom the chimp smirks'.
Jane,
Your response to the lefty flamers was my introduction to you, as I followed a link from Glenn Reynolds. I like you already. I too have been saying to my colleagues on the left that if endlessly repeating their tiresome trope about Bush being a moron who stole the election is the best they can do, the GOP will be in power for a long time. As Andrew Sullivan nicely put it, how must it feel to be defeated by a retarded monkey? And the irony is, this is a Democratic Gore supporter who is telling you this.
Best,
Rick Rosendall
Washington, DC
Megan:
As others have noted, 'asshole' is a catagory that welcomes members from the Right as well as the Left. When I was one of the few Lefty bloggers going at it back in Nov. 01, my inbox was regularly treated to all manner of right-wing hate mail. These morons who've been troubling you do not represent the Left, just as the Nazis and racists who mailed me don't represent the right. We should all occasionally recall that the original concept of "Idiotarian" included members of both the Right and the Left. One thing that I learned the hard way was that letting them know they pissed you off only encourages them. Something to keep in mind for what I hope wil be a long future for your blog.
And if you wouldn't mind a few pointers from a Lefty, I submit the following:
1. If you open a mail and note that there is not a proper salutation, delete it immediately. The author was likely so filled with hate when they hit the keys that they couldn't be bothered with manners.
2. If you notise that their are alot of werds misspled and, the grammer isnt to good, and the sentances are runing togather... then enjoy a little chuckle to yourself that at least some of your foes are dipshits.
3. A borderline correspondance that actually does make a little bit of sense will usually stay civil if your response is poilte and thanks them for taking the time to write. This has worked for me even when the topic was guns.
4. Most important: Don't let them get to you! These pinpricks are likely slapping each other on their virtual backs right now since they have managed to take you out of the game for a time. We all need a break now and then, but don't let them think they are responsible for running you down.
Anyway, though I often disagree with you, you are a rockin' smart woman who will be missed by all. Come back to us soon.
Just want to note that I'm horrified by my misspelling of the word "their" above as "they're". Good God, I was typing way too fast for my own good. ;-)
Unfortunately,you did what you shouldn't have done which is to demonstrate how effective they are in getting to you. The tack you took trying to show how deluded they are by responding with more rational thought and insight obviously doesn't work with these people. Revealing how successful they've been in upsetting you only serves to encourage them even more. Keep up the good work and eventually you'll develop a hide thick enough to simply laugh 'em off.
Sent here via instapundit--hang in there!
The "warbloggers" (I'm assuming you're one) have done a tremendous service for those of us struggling to make the case for war out in the world of run-of-the-mill, non-epithet-spewing, reflexively anti-war liberals. Every day I've been able to pull evidence to support my position from the blogs, and as it turns out there are plenty of people for whom evidence makes all the difference, eventually. The people I've managed to persuade are now persuading others. You've done a good deed, and remember: no good deed goes unpunished.
On the other hand, it doesn't sound like you should expose yourself to a lot more venom. Having been involved in minor internet skirmishes in my own realm, I've never had the slightest desire to launch a blog.
Maybe someday when Microsoft comes up with a special filter for hate mail . . .
Feel better!
It's been my experience that most people both on the Left and on the Right prefer to listen and read opinions that they agree with.
There is no doubt that there are many, many people BOTH on the L and the R whose responses are no more than a variation of "you suck!".
But even among those that have more elaborate thought processes very few are willing to accept that they are wrong or that people disagree with them.
That's why so many political commentary websites ban those that disagree with the prevailing view.
Megan, dear - Hang in there. Don't let the turkeys get you down. I've heard some nasty stuff from left-wing "friends" of mine as well, and I think I've figured out the root cause of it.
They're furious that the blog allows you to say what you want to say. These types don't believe in truly free speech, so their attitude is (as one was foolish enough to say to me), "So, you like having a blog because it allows you to just say what you want without having to listen to anyone else's opinion?" That's the extreme left-wing idea of blogging - that we are somehow breaking the "correct" rules of discourse by speaking our own minds on our own blogs. We're circumventing their "brave" "protests" because we're not following their rules of political correctness. They don't have to be civil to us because our views are beyond the Pale and we don't care for "the people" like they do. And so on.
Don't ever stop. You're one of the most elegant voices of reason, and you're one of the reasons I created a blog myself. Take a break and gaze at all that lovely snow. And then come back and break some heads.
Megan - You are special to many of us. I read each morning your blog before any other. I'll follow the example of some of the other commentors and drop a few coins in your tip jar. Hurry back.
You write well. Please continue.
As an antidote to the debris, I read P.J.O'Rourke and drink hot chocolate. (I wish we had snowfall: I'm in Arizona in a drought.)
Unwilling to do the sort of work it takes to understand complicated issues, the extremes of left and right fill their mental vacuums with cheap abuse and sloganeering. But this convinces only the like-minded, particularly if malt beverages are in the mix. Discourse is useless with these vein-popping sorts. Pies in the face are best. But as this recourse frequently is unavailable, a quicker trigger finger on the delete button is recommended. You know what they say about the tree falling it the forest with no one to hear it.
As #1 here on this thread, I take an encore.
I gotta admit, I am surprised at the response. With the exception of one total cad - also a bounder - ( GT ), note that we all miss you...
We have a snow total of thirty inches now with more coming. Ah, county life. But power is still on, there's a fire in the fireplace, I have a good book to read and - best of all - I found the ingredients for a hot toddy.
As for the marchers, I found an old Gary Larson tee shirt. It has a group of marchers - very reminiscent of the recent idiotarians - who are carrying a banner "Idiots of America". Gag: they're holding it upside down. They can read it, but no one else can. Interesting, eh?
Chin up, Megan, dearest...
Hurry back, babe..
Jane, the Yogi Bera (the great American philospher) phrase--deja vu all over again--comes to mind as well as other threadbare ad hominems, America on the wrong side of history or American Imperialism. There are no new ideas coming from the Left as demonstrated by their vitriol. Take a break, smell the roses and watch how the US leads the world in the successful resolution of this problem.
Hi lady:
I'm with Charles -- take a break, blow off some steam, then please come back. I'm sorry some folks lack the class to treat a lady correctly in an honest political debate; please don't let those morons stop you.
I speak for a lot of folks when I say we don't want to lose your commentary.
Just start singing Monty Python's "Always Look On the Bright Side of Life;" you'll feel better in no time.
Come back soon ,Megan.
If it is any consolation I'm 52 ,and have always been more libertarian than anything else. But because of my interests I've always been surrounded by lefties. Some are good folks, but for 30+ years many have vitrolically and viciously yaken me to task in public for not being a good moral person like themselves. I once had a big fat bully who who resembled Michael Moore come up to me at a party and gleefully stab me in the chest with a button that said "Lobotomies for Republicans: it's the law." When I slapped his hand away and warned him to back off he accused me of being "violent."
They never learn.
Steve Bodio
Please return soon. I've never posted a comment on your blog, but I've read it since I was turned on to it by a friend. Your writing is sublime and will be missed.
People can be sucky and lame.
I am still not a fan of the administration, but I'm a heck of a lot smarter person for reading the intelligent, articulate, cut-to-the-bone arguments I've read on various pro-administration blogs throughout the past few weeks.
You're going on my "must read" page!
(Came here after reading Josh's comments on OxBlog.)
Megan, you do wonderful work. The nature of the Internet is that all kinds of human debris have access to email. You must either ignore them or enjoy annoying them. Here's hoping your time off measures hours. Best wishes.
Dear Megan,
I can add little to the supporting comments already posted except to add my compliments about your lucid observation and argumentation.
The objective of those using foul language and insults is to silence a clear voice of reason. Living in the murky depths, they have every reason to hate and fear the light.
The quality of those who denigrate you should be measured against the quality of your admirers.
I hope to enjoy your writing again soon.
Many of us treasure you and consider you as part of our 'internet family'.
Any Lady would be disturbed to receive such correspondence and the failure of these people to curb their mongrels is deplorable. To have the residue of such a landmine on the sole of your shoe is an unfortunate but perhaps inevitable result of their failure to be considerate of others.
We look forward to seeing you again, soon.
Don't give in to the morons.
And if you want me to screen your email, let me know.
news flash! blogger receives hate mail! film at 11...
<tumbleweed rolls by>
<sound of crickets>
Megan,
I was just routed from Reynold's site, and I read the intelligent, well-judged, and calm "I've had it up to here" note. I too try to assume that the opposition is not evil; I reasure myself that every person is a hero in their own mind. I do not know if the problem with these hate-mailers is a lack of intelligence, or a failure in the code of ethics. It may make me a 'young fogie', but I would never talk that way to a lady.
Respectfully,
Tadeusz
I have been noticing that the leftwing carping has risen in proportion with the realization of the ineffectiveness of the "peace" protests as well as all the other efforts to tie what they see as the American beast down. And of course the waiting gets on everyone's nerves. I haven't received a lot of email, probably because I hide my email in a "contact" link near the bottom of my page. Instead trolls look for ancient posts of mine to poop on.
In any case, what I think you should do is put up the most ridiculous email and make fun of it. When life hands you lemons, make lemonade! That's what I would do, anyway. No doubt GT would disapprove! ;)
an old Arab proverb:
"The Dogs Bark, But the caravan passes on".
They are the Dogs and you are the caravan let the dogs bark as you pass on on your way to your destination.
Barry
congrats for not stooping to their level and don't let them get ya down.
biggest hyprocracy I see is a lot of these folks are wondering why the right is "avoiding debate" yet they can't enter onto one themselves, they must attack and destroy without any consideration of the other side's facts. How peaceful.
Jane: Andrea's concept had real merit. You ought to do a "Howling to the Moon" side link featuring the "Best of the Idiotarian Inbox". Publicizing stupidity is the essential first step in excising it from public discourse. Think along the lines of what the Scopes Monkey Trial did for W J Bryan and the Creationism Enforcers in mid 20th century America. They won the trial and lost the debate.
well, the occassion of meeting a jerk should be a reason to rejoice that you are not one of them. after all you get to go home and be you and they have to put up with being annoying and clueless and that is a hard row to hoe. sometimes i feel compassion for the clueless loser assholes who have to be themselves 24 hours a day. think upon that and count your blessings.
The exit from the teachers lounge at Dearborn High School had (may still have for all I know) a little sign that said "Illegitimati Non Carborundum*" which meant "Don't Let the Bastards Wear You Down."
All you have to remember is the delete key is to the right on your keyboard.
*I think that is what was there. I don't know Latin.
Megan, I sure understand where you're coming from. Sometimes the bozos just wear you down. That was part of the reason I "went fishing" for a few days a couple of weeks back.
Enjoy the rest, and try to get back in time for the big doings coming soon. The blogosphere needs your voice.
Megan...no....you give up..and they win...your blog is wonderful..and educational..and fun..and there are too many quiet, broke people who love you...
Megan we all need to take a breather sometimes, enjoy a brief respite and come back to us fully refreshed and fit for battle, the rest of us will have to make do as best we can.
GT, hmmm...and what to say about GT...kicking a person when their down? Antagonizing someone who's announced their intention to withdraw? My what a fine and brave lefty troll you are. I'm sure you'll make a good informant or communist dupe one day, seeing as you're already a callow and gutless prick. Keep up the good work jackass.
GT:
Please see Brian Linse on how to disagree without being disagreeable.
Three ca. 1930s cartoon mice, are singing harmony and dancing, and grinning BIG grins:
We'd tip our hat to you!
If we had one
(Boom boom boom boom)
We'd tip our hat to you
But we haven't got a hat!
(B-B Boo-boo boom boom boom)
In other words,
Dammit! I like you, Megan.
Squeak!
Megan,
Sorry to hear about all the idiots you've had to deal with lately. They simply cannot beat that "moron" in the White House; they're losing the argument and they know it. Take some time off, recharge your batteries and then be sure and get back into it because you're way too important to lose.
My what a fine and brave lefty troll you are. I'm sure you'll make a good informant or communist dupe one day, seeing as you're already a callow and gutless prick. Keep up the good work jackass.
See what I mean?
There are posters like this all over.
You are 90% facts and reason, and I really enjoy your site and opinions. Don't give up blogging. For every mean-spirited, non-logical asshat that sends you hate mail, I'm sure there are many tens of supportive and agreeing readers.
MW (a long time lurker/first time poster)
Come back, Jane, keep up the good work, etc.
My applause (and obviously many others) for keeping up a tough standard in fractious times.
In the primate-psychology sense politics is about emotion: the identification with one side or another so as to feel part of the tribe, reinforced by the sense of enemies out there. Plus, very few of us can do anything to influence the major events we face--a recipe for serious emotional stress. Therefore, being rational about politics takes real training and self-control and you should expect a fair amount of monkey shit thrown your way.
Way back in SIDL debate when I first learned about the Aristotelean fallacies, my favorite (not to use, you idiot, to observe!) was ad hominem, aka "have no case, abuse your opponent". Any opponent--left, right, libertarian, authoritarian or simply confused--who can't do better than call you names, has no case and should merely be ignored. In a juried debate, they would have lost speaker points for abusing the opponent. Clearly you win on speaker points and we all encourage you to come back.
Practically speaking, you may want to delete unread any missive--comment or email-- that begins with abuse, or at the moment it degenerates into abuse. No point giving the uncivil a soap box or letting them hurt you by reading their vitriol. As my mother used to advise me about dealing with my younger brother; "Just ignore them until they lose interest."
My dad had a great line for occasions like this. Hardly unique, but worth repeating:
Don't let the bastards get you down.
When the invective gets too bad, you might remember the response of John Randolph of Roanoke to similar treatment in the US House of Representatives. He rose from his seat & quoted McGuffey’s first reader: “See, see the little dogs, Spot & Trey & all, they bark at me!”
Apologies for a failing memory, but that’s close enough. Just don’t let the little dogs get to you.
Re: the Bertrand Russell quote by Mac above: my father, then-Captain Paul Jones, US Army was a prisoner in East Germany for several weeks in 1958 after the helicopter in which he was riding went off course and crash-landed in the east zone.
All the men aboard were interrogated by an East German politcal officer, but Dad threw him for a loop- he spoke fluent german and had a degree in political science, and argued Marxist dialecticism with the commissar, much to the latter's dismay.
The interrogator ended up red in the face, shouting at dad and pounding on the table with his fist. Dad smiled and said, "In America we like to quote the chinese philospher Confucius, and Confucius say, 'He who raises his voice has lost his argument!'"
They sent him back to the cell and didn't talk to him again until the crew was released in exchange for some plainclothes spies....
Keep up the good work- as long as your opponents are incoherent and irrational, you're winning!
Remember you are being condemned by stupid people; the smart people appreciate your ability to think and write.
I'm a great believer in radical human stupidity. Propostion 1: We're all idiots; some people just haven't learned to be quiet about that fact.
This world has enough vitriolic chowderheads to swell the ranks of the Left, Right, Center, Northeast, Top, Bottom, Strange, and Charm. When you're high profile, you're going to draw out the people who'd rather lash out than talk.
But c'mon, commenters, let's not pretend such a small cross-section draws a fatal smear across the Left or that to every position, only one side has any substance. FreeRepublic is filled with people who live to hate and send death threats to "Hitlery", but that doesn't negate the validity of all conservative ideals, does it?
It's worth noting that the most offensive post on this thread came from the right, or whatever you call the folks who see Commies behind every corner. Does he impugn the rest of the right-of-center commenters here? No, only himself.
And, though we'd probably explode if we ever came on contact, I defended you over at the source of most of your mail. Keep blogging, minus the 2x4s.
Megan, I think I can understand how you feel. Take a well deserved break. But please come back. Your voice will be sorely missed.
GT:
Gentleman says: I disagree with your opinions, but I am sorry for your personal distress.
Cad says: You got what you deserved.
Whom did you chose to be?
Megan --
Surely there's some sort of b-school axiom about satisfied customers keeping quiet, and unhappy ones raising the roof? I've read your blog almost daily for over a year now, and lazily never voiced my appreciation. Out here on the Left Coast (Seattle) I've felt very alone in my politics and opinions...your writing, even when I disagree (not often) helps me to clarify my own thinking. Thank you for the time and energy you've put into janegalt; you've stuck your neck out and HAVE made a difference.
"I do not seek unpopularity as a badge of honour. But sometimes it is the price of leadership. And the cost of conviction."
--Tony Blair
I was going to comment, but found that my comments would take too much space.
So instead, I posted here.
Come back soon, Megan! We love you.
1. Wisdom is recognizing stupidity in a dialog.
2. Prudence is recognizing that this thread is not the right time or place to respond to it.
3. Restraint is the exercise of prudence.
4. Respect is that which is accorded to he or she who prudently invokes restraint.
GT: A simple "I strongly disagree with you on many occassions, Jane, but hope we can continue to disagree in future debates" would have earned you some genuine kudos.
That opening sneer, regrettably, is going to linger like a bad air.
It's psychologically taxing to have your world-view methodically destroyed. And it's worse when (as your position lacked logic to begin with) you can't fall back on logic to defend yourself. The vitrol of your opponents is a sign you're winning and she be worn with pride.
Just a quote for you, Megan:
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life"
--Sir Winston Churchill
Don't let 'em get you down.
Megan -- Thanks so much for your blogging to date, and enjoy your self-perscribed R and R. For emotionally sensitive souls, hate mail can be truly wounding; you're confronting the reality that some of your enemies think you to be no better than a murderer. I hope this backlash of "lovemail" takes some of the edge off; for us, your admirers, you are a force for good, providing emotional fuel and intellectual ammunition for our own struggles (which is why we all wish for your speedy return as soon as you feel up to it!). Keep fighting the good fight, out of the public eye if need be for a time, but always in heart and mind.
Megan, your amusing and instructive posts have kept your site on my must-read-every-day list for over a year. Thank you for all the words you have contributed to my enjoyment and education. I look forward to your return.
Hey, lady:
Creepoids fear you, as they dread all tellers of truth. Pity them - in just a few short weeks the world will see them for the morally and intellectually bankrupt losers they are. Don't give up the ship!
Megan:
I really have nothing to say that hasn't been better expressed already. Just be aware that your work is respected and appreciated and there will be many of us who will miss you for whatever length of time you choose to be away. As Pejman said on his site, come back when it's fun again. We'll wait.
Did anybody pay GT to provide comic relief to this thread?
Megan, What you are doing is important. We cannot allow ourselves to be silenced by the fascists. When the Soviet Uniton began to unravel, some smart guy, I forget who, said something along the lines of: "Once we decided to stop lying, it was over." Telling the truth is important. So is courage. One of the things I learned in Ranger School is that everyone makes puppy noises sometime. The really tough guys are the ones who fail, who wind up whimpering, and yet they get back up and start the slow painful slog again. Now, Suck it up and drive on. No one ever said telling the truth had to be fun (lopsided ironic grin).
Well, its just this sort of reason I don't have a comments section. (That, and the fact that I don't have enough readers to actually comment-- I also don't have enough readers to regularly send me hate mail.)
Well, Jane, you're a great blogger and a great writer, and you will be missed. (Somehow, I suspect, not for all that long, but what do I know?) Enjoy your hiatus. And take good care of that doggie of yours.
God bless and godspeed.
Anony mouse,
You seem to think that my first post was directed to Jane.
It wasn't.
It was directed to A. Kling whose previous post I quoted.
Jane's point was that she received a lot of attacks from people that disagree with her (I assume personal and insulting attacks).
and A. Kling proved why this is (as Jane herself says) something both the L and the R do.
What did Kling say?
my theory is that the Left is angry because they are not able to argue well on substance
In other words if you disagree with me it's because you can't reason.
And then we wonder why there is no tolerance in these political/commentary websites.
What made Kling's comment even more outrageous was that Kling, only a few weeks back, wrote an article about "Idiotarian Economics" where he chastised the left and which was shown to be full of errors. In particular d^2 destroyed what Kling said about Krugman and about Marx.
So here's someone who makes easily demonstrably false statements accusing those that disagree with him of being unable to argue on the substance.
I simply pointed that out and look at some of the responses I received:
Did anybody pay GT to provide comic relief to this thread?
or
My what a fine and brave lefty troll you are. I'm sure you'll make a good informant or communist dupe one day, seeing as you're already a callow and gutless prick. Keep up the good work jackass.
In other words here in this thread the Right has provided at least two fine examples of the kind of infantile ad hominem attacks you normally see in grade school.
Jane - lots of good ideas above. Might I also suggest, if you have not done it already, that you simply stop reading email? Put up a post saying so, so that people that read the blog know. Then only read email if you feel like it. Take down the address, even.
There's no reason why anyone has to be able to speak to you privately.
Other than that, just let me add on to the group hug here. (hug). Guess maybe you need it.
My condolences for the hatemail. However, I don't see how you're going to improve the quality of debate if you say things like this:
... which you singlehandedly save the people of Iraq and the world by -- agitating to keep Saddam in power.
This is language perhaps benefits from its lack of vulgarity, but it is nevertheless offensive to those of us on the left who do try to engage in intelligent debate. The left no more supports Saddam remaining in power than you favor Hitler, as your hatemail probably accuses you.
I think you should reflect a little yourself. Then your public grief might seem a little less self-serving. (But then again, this is your site, after all.) None of the popular right-wing blogs that I visit -- the ones found on almost everyone's link list -- refrain from slandering liberals. Indeed, maybe we should all be a little more reflective.
I've been considering attending a so-called "peace" rally, if only to inject some sanity and provoke critical thought, something sorely lacking among these cretins.
I would bear the sign "Saddam Tortures Olympic Athletes." Considering that the Olympic movement was founded to promote peace, that's one irony worth contemplating.
If she really wanted to be off-blog she would have turned off the comments, too. I hope you feel better that your pals are licking your wounds for you. Sorry deary, you say something that can be interpeted as "smash a few folks with 2x4s if they get out of line" and you will get a few hate emails. Comes w/ the territory. Don't say stuff like that next time. I don't think it would be out-of-context to quote Ari Fleisher here: "You've got to be careful with what you say and careful with what you do."
Hey, M/J? If it stops being fun, stop doing it; you don't owe anybody anything. I'd hate to see you stop, however, because I've thoroughly enjoyed visiting here. Hopefully, the fun will come back. After reading the far-too-usual ad hominem post over at Brad Delong's site, I wrote following:
"The commonly made assertion that those who don't share my political perspective are simply idiots is an unfortunate phenomena that exists in both major political parties, and probably all the minor ones as well. It is an assertion that is also, ironically, quite stupid. It is a form of stupidity that most of us have fallen prey to at least once, if only silently. Hopefully , as one gains maturity, which unfortunately is a process that some never experience, one begins to understand that most political disagreements stem from fundamentally different assumptions, usually regarding human nature. Since fundamental assumptions are unavoidable in political theory, and are, in the final analysis, not subject to empirical proof (hence the term "assumption") it is senseless to attribute stupidity to everyone that has a differing political perspective. This isn't to say that idiocy is not rampant nearly everywhere on the political spectrum; it is a constant source of wonder that people are so very often incapable of learning from plainly observable phenomena. To assume, however, that all who disagree with me are imbeciles is itself the height of imbecility, and forecloses dialogues that can foster wisdom."
It also interesting that those who institute ad hominem language sometimes resort to an accusation of hypocrisy when people reply in kind, when complaining about such rhetorical tactics. Well, if one is punched in the nose, it not hypocritical to respond with a punch in the nose, as a means of complaint. The person who first abandons civilized discourse is the one upon whom the vast majority of responsibility lies.
I note that Jack beat me to the punch, but I'll repeat:
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
Rats only bite humans when they are cornered or the human is unconscious. It sounds like you had them well-cornered. Now, don't remain unconscious too long. Come back soon. Your voice is important.
Hopefully more of your supportersd are hitting your tip jar.
Best wishes,
Peter
Amitava:
To quote the late great Walt Kelly [aka Pogo]: "I was beginning to like you as an enemy, so don't make me hate you as a friend."
Unfortuneately, while The Right has its nasty characteristics - not-so-subtle racism is one - The Left has a habit of commenting with a definite music note whining.
The tune is "Poor persecuted pure ME".
Ami, you a gutsy soul. Forget the lyrics and don't learn the tune.
Thank you!
Your secret friend
Jane/Megan,
One of the first things they teach you in medical school is that the world is full of assholes. (In medical school those assholes happen to be your teachers, but never mind.) The second thing they teach you is to ignore them.
Hang in there. It's hard not to take venomous attacks personally, but none of those emailers really know you, do they? Of course not. (And your post wasn't offensive. It was poetic license.)
Hope you come back soon and with as much fire as ever.
Good point, Kate -- some people ARE so pedantically anal that they cannot handle a little humorous hyperbole, and in the absence of being able to address the argument, resort to pointlessly foolish nitpicks. A shame these same people have access to email clients, isn't it? Hopefully Jane will be back soon in spite of them, her common sense is missed.
If you all ignore GT, he'll just go away like the sad little man that he is. Notice how he keeps coming back to check what kind of responses he's drawn? It's just a need for attention -- if you don't give it to them, they get even angrier. Apply the same philosophy to this blog and please come back soon!
GT: my post about the possibility of you being a mercenary comic was not an ad hominem logical fallacy. If you could get paid for such ribald hilarity, more power to you. Its and example of Drawing an Affirmative Conclusion From a Negative Premise, with its implicit assumption that nobody would play the fool in this context without mercenary motivation.
Megan, please don't take any of these nasty comments from the "Left" to heart...
They compared you to Bull Connor, that Democratic Party bastion of their last domestic success, Jim Crow? So, to bad-mouth you, they compare you with a DEMOCRAT?
That should be enough to illustrate the inanity of these people. Do not end the fight, please.
We will end the Tyranny of the Poets, just you wait and see.
my post about the possibility of you being a mercenary comic was not an ad hominem logical fallacy
It was childish.
So, GT, struck a nerve, did I? You got served the dish you merit.
Hi Megan,
I'm so sorry about all this garbage. Please take care of yourself, as long as it takes, and come back when you can. As you know, many thousands of people enjoy your writing immensely, and would sorely miss it.
I go through the same kind of thing at least once a week -- not so much because of hate mail (I don't merit any yet, I guess, darn it!), but for other reasons, but I think the feelings are much the same.
But as all the comments here show, there are many intelligent people who are fully on your side, and see the others for what they are. It is odd, though, isn't it that it is the unusually well-mannered bloggers, like you, who seem to get singled out for this sort of thing? Hmm, maybe not so odd after all.
Take good care of yourself.
Arthur
P.S. And how's your dog? I hope he continues to do well. Give him a hug from me. (And one for you, too!)
There have been so many bloggers of late who have decided to leave. They had their reasons. And if you must, we will not like it but understand. But certainly, we wish you to return to your posting. I read more than I comment, but you (and Mindless since he arrived) are needed. As said many times before me, "Never give up, never surrender!"
Dealing with trolls is like dealing with hyenas at a safari park. Don't feed them; keep your windows rolled up and keep driving. Avoid eye contact.
Very few of us ever want to be hated, or the objects of hate, particularly if we believe we're coolly rational and objective ourselves. You have to weigh the value you get from maintaining this blog against the pain of the e-mail, and look at your choices. Personally, I'd filter e-mail and immediately delete anything that slipped by that was crude or otherwise out of bounds. You don't have to be civil to those who put no value on that virtue themselves.
And I hit the tip jar as well, as the strongest endorsement I could find of this blog.
Very few of us ever want to be hated, or the objects of hate, particularly if we believe we're coolly rational and objective ourselves. You have to weigh the value you get from maintaining this blog against the pain of the e-mail, and look at your choices. Personally, I'd filter e-mail and immediately delete anything that slipped by that was crude or otherwise out of bounds. You don't have to be civil to those who put no value on that virtue themselves.
And I hit the tip jar as well, as the strongest endorsement I could find of this blog.
Very few of us ever want to be hated, or the objects of hate, particularly if we believe we're coolly rational and objective ourselves. You have to weigh the value you get from maintaining this blog against the pain of the e-mail, and look at your choices. Personally, I'd filter e-mail and immediately delete anything that slipped by that was crude or otherwise out of bounds. You don't have to be civil to those who put no value on that virtue themselves.
And I hit the tip jar as well, as the strongest endorsement I could find of this blog.
All,
The problem with ad hominem arguments is that they are so effective when preaching to the choir, and they usually sound good to the preacher himself. It requires real honesty and discipline to avoid them. Their prevalence, directed against people I disagree with, by people I agree with, distresses me. The best way to figure this out is to radically change your beliefs, so you can hear your former friends, whom you still love, being attacked by your new friends, and vice versa. Myself, I have found that those who have attacked GT to be adopting a noticeably nastier tone than his. I find his tone in the 'slightly irritable and grouchy' range. I found some of those attacking him to be in the 'nasty name-calling' range. Perhaps, since I am just passing through, I am missing some history here.
---- Yours,
---- 3om
All,
The problem with ad hominem arguments is that they are so effective when preaching to the choir, and they usually sound good to the preacher himself. It requires real honesty and discipline to avoid them. Their prevalence, directed against people I disagree with, by people I agree with, distresses me. The best way to figure this out is to radically change your beliefs, so you can hear your former friends, whom you still love, being attacked by your new friends, and vice versa. Myself, I have found that those who have attacked GT to be adopting a noticeably nastier tone than his. I find his tone in the 'slightly irritable and grouchy' range. I found some of those attacking him to be in the 'nasty name-calling' range. Perhaps, since I am just passing through, I am missing some history here.
---- Yours,
---- 3om
Megan
Take a break. Be supported by others for a bit. Recoup. Renergize. You do great work and your voice is needed. Unfortunately voices like yours will attract haters. Talk to Michele. Be true to yourself and what you know to be true. Be brave.
My prayers are with you.
Megster;
You oughta definitely consider a page for fisking hate mail, like the guy over at Best Page In The Universe:
http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi
May as well have some fun with it.
(Your critics just can't bear to get their ass kicked by a girl, the pansies.)
Tom,
I think some of the nastiness, from this observer's viewpoint, is due to the fact that Jane Galt, the proprietor of this website, is feeling bad because she is getting a slew of nasty email. And, from the original posting, would appear to be thinking about hanging it up.
Which, if you think about it even as a mere passer-by, is unfortunate, if only because that means she will not be posting her analyses (which is presumably why you came here), never mind that it would also remove a forum for people to agree or disagree w/ what she says.
And GT (and a couple of others) come in at this time, and basically say, "Hah, good riddance. You deserve it. Get lost, you bum."
The sort of thing which, I'm sure, in other circumstances would be derided and condemned (like if someone said that to a gay person who'd been beaten up, or an Iraqi who'd lost a child, or a mother whose son was just executed in Texas for a first-degree murder). So, some of us look at that, and conclude that this person is, really, quite obnoxious and less deserving of civil intercourse, since they have, by their actions/words, indicated that they do not happen to feel that way about some of their fellow blogospheric residents (e.g., Ms. Galt).
And by the way: Illigitimi Non Carborundum Est! = I said without soda, you bastard!
I don't have much to add to the well-deserved sentiments expressed by the vast majority of the posters in this thread. I will just say:
1) You've created something very worthwhile here, and I hope you take pride in it;
2) Incoherent, abusive email from those who disagree with you is a sign you are on the right track, not the wrong one, and;
3) When you return from your time off, we'll be waiting for you, and just as ready to respond to your well-considered thoughts. I hope you continue to consider it an appropriate use for your valuable time.
Warmest Regards,
M. Scott Eiland
Anger, volume and curse words do not win arguments.
Reason does.
Keep the faith
Semper Fi
Well, I hope it's not too late for this lurker to mention how wonderful your posts are and how much he looks forward to them. Your site is part of my morning 'electronic blog paper', right before Den Beste.
Brian, I think Michael Fumento has much better examples of how to deal with hate mail.
Keep the faith J.G.! The sweet music of reason should never be drowned out.
Ms. Galt:
Actually, I probably should have noted, in my previous comment, that I find your comments and observations eye-opening, thought-provoking, and often times amusing (usually, when you mean them to be, I think).
It can be wearing to be constantly harried and critiqued, and as bloggers do this w/o remuneration, I've little doubt that, at times, it must seem like a frustrating thing for a hobby and personal avocation.
But I think you know (or you should, if you don't) that not only do many of us enjoy reading your blog (and sometimes even commenting on it), it DOES make a difference, too.
For the undecideds, there are some who, perhaps are swayed.
For those in agreement, it helps to hear, from an articulate source, our own or additional reasonings, laid out cogently and intelligently.
For those in disagreement, but of good will, perhaps it helps THEM, too, to realize that not all opponents are mere blood-thirsty, warmongers, but instead that there ARE thoughtful reasons why we disagree.
For those in disagreement, and otherwise, well, f*** 'em.
Just a thought....
And GT (and a couple of others) come in at this time, and basically say, "Hah, good riddance. You deserve it. Get lost, you bum."
No, I never addressed Jane in this thread.
Can you not read?
I addressed A. Kling. I addressed his comment.
Is there a reason conservatives change the facts so much when they are arguing?
Mostly what PejmanPundit said, but in a word: If you run, the idiots have won. Don't let 'em win.
Maintain the Good Fight. Two things to remember: 1 - Quoting Rush: "Conservatives deal in facts, Liberals deal in emotions"; 2 - Quoting Larry Elder: "Facts to a Liberal are like kryptonite to Superman."
Dammit! I never get hate mail. The closest I came was some fkwit from the Netherlands who, on his site had a message that it was a gun free site, but, nevertheless, wanted to take me outside and have me shot. Since I'm a cripple, I suggested he hold me up when the shooting began.
Megan:
Have a nice respite, but please come back. You have a lot to say that is valuable. Above all, do not let the bastards get you down.
Megan:
Have a nice respite, but please come back. You have a lot to say that is valuable. Above all, do not let the bastards get you down.
Well, probably the reason leftists seem more hateful than rightists to you is that rightists don't hate you and (some) leftists do. Your little 2x4 joke was not exactly a rational / sweet reason sort of communication.
The reason why rational communication between far-distant points of view is so difficult is that very fundamental principles are almost impossible to argue about, partly because, for everyone except maybe Socrates (and I'm not at all sure about him), the principles themselves are usually more deeply held than any reason which can be given for them.
For the record, I did not send any of the emails you received and do not send that type of email.
None of this excuses anyone, but my site and several other comparable sites did just receive mail floods of 600+ nonsense emails, and Pandagon/Jesse and Atrios routinely receive grossly abusive comments on their message boards. Jesse is a young kid and, unlike myself and perhaps you, a fundamentally nice person, and he's allowed it bother him.
I admire people who have comments, but would never do so myself.
Jane-
You will be missed. You are appreciated and your opinions are valued. Meryl is right:
"Don't let the bastards get you down."
You're a fine writer; don't let the nimrods get you down.
Megan: take a break if necessary, for whatever reason, but do come back. You are useful.
Two thoughts: 1) when my wife was accused, in a grad seminar, of making an ad hominem argument, she responded (correctly) "He started it!" I always thought that was a hoot.
2) My grandfather observed that "there are always more horse's asses than there are horses. Don't let it get you down."
a handy rule to use with four-letter rules is that when you're done writing them, they should only have four letters.
Well, you could just give yourself over to comedy, if the economic and political commentary thing is getting to be a drag.
Your little 2x4 joke was not exactly a rational / sweet reason sort of communication.
Bingo, another sucker hooked per Kate's observation. Of course, since Jane is notorious for her bellicose, confrontational prose, any reasonable person would have read that line and assumed the worse.
Honestly, have any of the people who took that comment seriously enough to be offended by it checked to discover whether a 2x4 might be lodged up their own rear quarters?
Megan, your site is one of the bright spots on the Net. You are making a huge difference in a profoundly positive way. Please take a break until you see this again, or the nutjobs win.
Warm regards,
Skeej
Megan, your site is one of the bright spots on the Net. You are making a huge difference in a profoundly positive way. Please take a break until you see this again, or the nutjobs win.
Warm regards,
Skeej
Megan, your site is one of the bright spots on the Net. You are making a huge difference in a profoundly positive way. Please take a break until you see this again, or the nutjobs win.
Warm regards,
Skeej
Dean,
I think you gave an excellent reply as to why it was open season on GT, but I think GT is correct in that he never attacked Jane.
GT,
Conservatives, being as mistake prone as liberals, especially when in an emotionally charged argument, change the facts about as often as liberals. Did you make an ad hominem attack against conservatives? Or was that sarcastic humor? Or are they the same?
Jane,
I just saw Dr. Phil on David Letterman. He had a list of insulting things David had said over the last six months. Dr. Phil was able to laugh it off. Maybe we should all email Dr. Phil and ask him to have a show about dealing with insults on weblogs. I think your blog is worth an hour of national television to save. Anybody?
---- Yours,
---- 3om
GT,
One more thing. Since it isn't clear whether you do like Jane's blog and support her efforts, if you do, you could say so.
---- Yours,
---- 3om
Hey GT, is that you at http://gtblog.blogspot.com? Why is it that you don't support comments?
And have you figured out yet why you're getting static? Hint - you weren't the only lefty in this thread. But the rest of them, such as Brian Linse, showed some class. There's a time and place for everything.
You can redirect your hate mail to me if you want - it'll be a welcome break from the enlarge-your-breasts/penis or other spam I get. Better yet, post it like Michael Fumento does here.
Or even perhaps forward it to their employers or ISPs?
Whatever you do, you're welcome back whenever you're ready. And if you repost the posts you took down, so much the better, lest the trolls should think they won.
Best wishes, Megan. I've been following your site for over a year now, and I've always appreciated your ideas, even when I didn't agree, and your perspectives. Take a break and come back whenever you feel like it. I'll definitely keep an eye out for when you do.
When I read Zizka's comment, I decided to track back to her site to see her point of view.
"We liberals, myself and Bartcop excepted, are basically nice, fairminded, accepting people who believe in rationality, dialogue and so on. (That's one of the reasons why conservatives hold us in such contempt.) But dialogue with conservatives is usually fruitless. Even the civilized, rational ones have certain basic core beliefs about theocracy, the authority of the Bible, the law of the jungle as an ideal, the American imperial mission, the woman's role, etc., which liberals cannot accept, but which are also difficult to argue about."
Note to Zizka: not all conservatives are Pat Robertson. As far as I know, only one is, and most conservatives I read find him kind of smelly. But there is one way in which you and he are very similar; both of you are only really interested in preaching to your own choirs. (And that, my dear, is why you don't have comments.)
I read liberals too, but I won't read you. You've got nothing to say that isn't in the Handbook.
Megan, come back.
All this begs the question: what the dickens is wrong with swatting away looters and vandals with two-by-fours?
And what is the fascination with eagerly misunderstanding the extremely clear message that Megan was trying to make about all this?
(As for liberals, I reserve the right to beat them over the head with either arguments or soft, foam-rubber planks. Neither weapon does any permanent damage.)
Invective from the Left has been nasty for a very long time. Their strategy: fling insults, ad hominem "arguments" and profanity until decent people won't stoop to their level, and when the decent abandon the field the game defaults to the rude. Exposure may blunt the invective somewhat. Glenn Reynolds posted an interesting suggestion:
http://www.instapundit.com/archives/007587.php#007587.
But keep the two by fours handy. And please do return to the field.
Come on back, Jane, swinging that 2X4 of love
Any idea what Jane's signature, --30--, means? Just curious.
One thing about moronic wingnut fucks - they can dish it out, but they sure can't take it.
Piss off, twit...
David, --30-- isn't Jane's signature, it's a journalist's device meaning "end of article."
Ms. Galt:
I found your website, and particularly this entry, via Blogdex. I have yet to read your opinions, but I now plan to backtrack and read it based on this post of yours; I find your statements regarding civilized debate and courtesy to be incredibly refreshing.
Although I myself am not directly responsible for any of the assinine individuals who appear to have e-mailed you, I nevertheless apologize for their conduct.
I consider myself of a 'liberal', 'left' frame of mind, but at the same time I wholeheartedly believe much of what you said in this particular message regarding the courtesy that should exist in debate.
Please know that there are many 'liberals' out there who would deplore the evident onslaught of profane and unkind e-mail that you received and the actions and behavior of those who sent it to you. I am one.
My best to you, and my wishes for a relaxing sabbatical and a prompt return.
Mike
P.S. Mr. H. Myers, I would like to respectfully suggest in response to your comment that both conservatives and liberals have individuals in their ranks who resort to "fling[ing] insults, ad hominem 'arguments' and profanity until decent people won't stoop to their level." It is unfortunately an apolitical behavior, not one unique to either family of political belief.
Golly, "Jane," I didn't realize there was a gun to your head forcing you to blog -- especially forcing you to suggest using weapons on people you disagree with.
I didn't realize there was a gun to your head when you appeared on TV not long ago to discuss blogging, thus exposing you to the danger of (eek!) being read by even more people who might happen to disagree with you.
Can't stand the heat? Kitchen door's that way.
Damn, you liberal-haters really do think you qualify for a categorical exemption from other people's anger, don't you?
Poor girl.
You have no problem suggesting that felony assualt and battery is a proper way to deal with someone whom you disagree with, but then you go running under your bedcovers when you get vitriolic emails from peoplee who disagree with you. Just be glad that those people who emailed you didn't decide to express their disagreement with a piece of southern yellow pine.
Any one who tells people to throw bricks or swing 2x4s at protestors needs a break, and perhaps institutionalization.
Either you are a sicko or a wacko.
I just have one question? Are there actually important and influential Lefty blogs. I haven't actually seen one.
Megan - Speaking as a person who has spewed and ranted off the cuff her whole life - I find the way you express yourself the be the prime example of DEBATE 101. You fight with facts, and reason with evidence. You don't resort to name calling or insults. Why? Because you are so intelligent that you don't need to. So in your honor, to those who would send you hateful email
FUC YU LOOOSERS!
Wow, three morons in a row who can't read!
A crisp $20 bill to any one of you three reprobates who can cut-and-paste a single sentence of Megan's in which she clearly, unequivocally advocates "using weapons on people you disagree with," "felony assualt and battery [as] a proper way to deal with someone whom you disagree with," or "throw[ing] bricks or swing[ing] 2x4s at protestors."
Show me any single sentence that advocates any one of those things, as opposed to using force to fend off vandals and I swear before every person in this thread, as a man of my word, I will give you $20. Put up or shut up, kiddos.
(I feel safe knowing that I'll be keeping my money, because a)none of them actually have read Megan's posts, and instead they let Atrios tell them what to think, and b)they're too cowardly to actually engage in argument. Witness the fact that two of them used fake e-mail addresses.)
And make sure everyone notices L'il Dave, up there. He's the little gargoyle who hangs out fellating Hesiod and Atrios 24/7, making comments that show how tough he is, but isn't quite man enough to put an e-mail address on the Internet. Those are the kind of people that those two attract, and AFAIC, they're welcome to them. The liberal argument can be made quite well by Kevin Drum, and Ted Barlow, and Oliver Willis, and tons of others, without giving those two and their little cheering sections any credibility whatsoever.
Armed Liberal has a quote up on his banner: "We're the good guys. We benefit in the long run from elevating the level of the debate at every opportunity." -- Brad DeLong
Anyone who thinks that that's what Hesiod and Atrios and their Moron Brigades are doing, raise their hands. Higher, please, I can't see them. Anyone? Bueller? No?
"All this begs the question: what the dickens is wrong with swatting away looters and vandals with two-by-fours?"
Michael Ubaldi answers his own question: the problem is exactly that the comment allowed vigilantes to see anti-war protesters as "looters and vandals" and made them feel justified in their violent urges toward those people.
I understand that Jane received the deluge of nasty email in the wake of an incident in Georgia where a cinder-block thrown from a car struck a 10-year-boy attending a protest.
Now, I don't think it's very nice to write nasty emails to Jane, but that doesn't make her post any more defensible.
First, I sincerely hope that Jane/Megan returns to the blogosphere. Second, I hope that she can find it in her to apologize for the 2x4 joke. I, for one, would be very impressed.
cheers,
ND
PS. I also understand that the emails started pouring in after Atrios linked to both a story about the Georgia attack and referred to "Jane Galt's goon squad." Now, that's certianly not very nice, and I was tempted to call it "unfair." Unfortunately, Ubaldi's post is a testament to the aptitude of Atrios' correlation. If we're really interested in reason here, J/M doesn't need goons like Ubaldi.
Phil,
you know you'll keep your money because she has taken down the "controversial posts." I have indeed read the post. I can no longer quote it verbatim because it is no longer available here and I haven't found a copy elsewhere. If someone else has the exact quote, please post it.
But Phil, don't be so disingenuous.
ND
You can accuse me of disingenuity when you can produce that sentence that unequivocally advocates beating protestors, period.
Mark Kleiman was sure able to suss it out: Jane Galt suggested that if the anti-war march in New York turned Seattle-like, the good folks in New York ought to meet violence (against property) with violence (against persons).
And, as luck would have it, his link to the archived version of Megan's page still works. All emphases are mine:
Anti-war protesters are great. I disagree with them, and I really, really disagree with letting ANSWER organize their rallies, but I think having people who are willing to stand out in the cold to show their feelings about something as important as war is vital to the health of our nation. I share most New Yorkers' distaste for parades we're not in, because any largish event pretty much shuts down the entire city, but I certainly think they should be afforded every consi