Asymmetrical Information

For what it's worth, my long-suffering bride was quite pleased with a sapphire, though it was surrounded by diamonds.
-jack

Jack -- Sapphire surrounded by diamonds was what Princess Diana had too.

It's up to the couple what stone (if any) they want to use to symbolize their engagement. If a couple wants cz, more power to them.

However, I know some men lie about it, trying to pass off a cz as a diamond. I don't think that sets a good tone for the future.

No engagement ring, and a nice simple gold band from a local goldsmith for our elopement. Rings with knobby bits like gems seem to me to be impractical, fragile, expensive, and silly.

Of course, there are those who would argue that "impractical, fragile, expensive, and silly" is a fine set of properties for a symbol of one's love to have, but it's not really what I look for in a relationship.

I can't say I've any right to be surprised when "Dear Abby" doesn't share my views, though :-)
--G

Diamonds are soaked in blood.

The diamond smuggling operations of central Africa are among the most brutal and evil criminal operations supporting tyranny today. And the DeBeers cartel is pretty evil, too.

So giving a diamond as a present is giving a symbol of evil and death.

And don't get me started on cyanide heap leaching techniques for modern open pit and strip mining of gold. Who wants an engagement ring that symbolizes tainted streams and groundwater you are imposing on your children?

Not to mention the diamond industry is a dreadful cartel that used to help fund apartheid South Africa. I have never bought anyone an engagement ring, but when I do, I am going to express a preference for sapphire, although I don't expect that the decision will be entirely mine.

No need to dirty your hands doing business with a bloody racist cartel when you can dirty them with honest labor by digging your own diamonds right here in the good ole U.S.A.

See: http://love-story.com/fd08.htm

and http://www.aristotle.net/~russjohn/crater.html

for some details.

My fiancee told me she'd get angry if I wasted money on an engagement ring. "I could buy power tools with that money," she said.

There are definite advantages to being engaged to a gearhead.

Or to an Argentinian. They don't do diamond engagement rings there. A cheap gold band does just fine.

Sometimes certain things in life just transcend consistency in one's political views. Making sure that the token of my undying affection had been manufactured in a humanitarian method really never occurred to me, and I don't feel even a little remorse about that.

Canada recently found diamonds...I know one of the big mining companies there is set to buy a very expensive/old jewelry company. If you are worried it shouldn't be hard to find out where the diamond is from. On the other hand I have always loved Tanzanite (hard to find though)

I have a diamond for my enagagement ring, but it's not my fault. I would have much prefered a ruby (or nothing at all...I'm not an adornment type of gal) My husband's father is a geologist specializing in rocks that crystalize like, say, diamonds. When discussing when we should get engaged I said, "whenever..." but it was my spouse (then Boyfriend) who was insistant that we wait until he could afford to give me a rock. Then he started ranting about how I needed to have a diamond with a certain cut, clarity, carot and whatever the other C is you're supposed to have. He might as well have been speaking Greek.

On the other hand, my mother has a lovely garnet which she received ten years after she was married, which I think she loves even more than I love my diamond. It doesn't matter what you have, or if you even have a wedding band. What matters is that you love someone enough to make that sort of commitment. Any other purpose for an engagement is just wrong.

My wife also didn't want a diamond, partly because engagement rings and wedding rings aren't a part of traditional Indian culture. But having been raised here, I felt that a wedding ring seemed like the thing to do. We both got matching rings with Alexandrite surrounded by tiny diamonds. I'm glad to hear so many others took a similar route. One day there will come a day when no man will feel obligated to spend a half a year's salary just to win a woman's heart. Greedy womenses...they're tricksy and false... ;)

Gee, and I thought the going scale was three months' salary. Who upped the ante ?

Cheers,

emerald. deep and green on a silver band that I designed. she loved/s it.

go from the heart before going from someone's idea of ettiquite

Titanium rings. For when you really mean it. Forever. (tm)

:)

Cheaper, enviro-friendly (no blood diamonds here!), more interesting ... as an added bonus : cooler and geekier.

"Hey, I have Space Shuttle Grade Titanium on my finger!"

"It also theoretically serves to ward off potential suitors, although not as well as you'd think."

Definitely not as well as you'd think.

And for men, a wedding band on his finger actually serves as an enticement to many women. Ew.

Asparagirl - I've heard that before but never tested it out. [goes off to pawnshop to get cheap ring that could pass for a wedding ring - just kidding].

Another thing about DeBeers. As was mentioned, diamonds really aren't all that rare. They are expensive for one reason and one reason only: DeBeers has an illegal cartel and does everything in its power to keep them expensive.

I kinda like that titanium idea! Or copper would be cool too. Titanium wouldn't work with all skin tones (like mine). I guess like with weddings though you have to grit your teeth and endure whatever the bride wants. . .

D'you know, the thread where everybody agrees that all is for the best in this the best of all possible market economies because consumers know what's good for 'em, is still on the front page?

Ah, I see that "dsquared" doesn't believe that people actually gain pleasure out of status and rarity. Plenty of people want to have things because they are status symbols-- being associated with having the right or in thing is worth something to people. For many people, symbols are important indicators. Rational? Yes, if you're willing to concede that a preference for things like that is rational.

If ever I find myself pondering purchasing an engagement ring, I'll apply a far more simple approach.

I'll simply purchase a fifth of lime vodka, and give the remainder of my money the first woman I meet on the street. Far less painful than marriage, and doesnt' take as long to recover.

If I want to improve teh fidelity of the simulation, I'll get a lawyer to charge me for the privilege of handing my money away, then I'll go tell a bunch of WWF fans that only sissies watch teh show.

But I think I'll be content with the low fidelity simulation.

(Hey, someone said that there was too much agreement.....)

My beloved didn't want a ring. She insisted I buy her a DSL connection instead.

Our orginal engagement ring (diamond set in platimnum) was made by my grandfather, a watchmaker and jeweler. He died before I was born, but made two engagement rings for each of his two sons. To be used by his grandsons.

It worked. My brother and I used them. My two cousins used theirs. And that was all the males of that generation. Grandpop was a bit of a prophet.

Ours was lost while swimming in the Atlantic off Maine. The other three are still here...

Asparagirl: I'd always heard that, but you know, since I got married, not one woman has hit on me. Now, I wasn't drawing them like flies before (there's an image for you), but now they're not even like a bumblebee that strayed from its nest. I'm not upset, but I'm disinclined to think there's any veracity to that statement.

On more general terms: It may be more rational to give cubic zirconia, but as a piece of practical advice, I agree with the following:

Perhaps cubic zirconia is the rational man's choice, although I'd check with the intended before you spring it on her.

...and add the following: Check from out of her reach, too.

When I proposed, we were walking in the Village and I had no ring with me. I stopped by a five and dime, and bought a ring made of olive wood, for $7.50. Our love lasted for 21 years, until my wife was killed in a car accident.

You were married for 21 years to another woman? :)

Seriously, for my money, its a Kashmir Sapphire...a thousand times rarer than a diamond and much nicer looking too. Princess Diana's ring was a freakin' rock (22 carats?) and probably cost way less than the equivalent diamond.

'And for men, a wedding band on his finger actually serves as an enticement to many women. Ew.'

If definitely makes it easier to make platonic friends with women, and one can engage in mild flirting without fearing that it will go anywhere. I think some single women are more comfortable with married men than single men friends, in the same way as some single women like gay men as friends.

But I've never noticed the ring being an enticement, or maybe I'm exceptionally thick. However, I am an engineer, with the accompanying sex-appeal suppression field.

On another note; we bought estate jewelry for our rings; the craftsmanship seemed to be better, and what you got for your money was more than for new jewelry.

I was especially taken with a palladium ring dating from WW2, when there was a shortage of platinum in the US, so they used palladium instead. I just had to have it as a wedding band. It's on the finger over the 'S' key as I type.

The jeweller we bought from could date the diamonds on my wife's rings to the 1930s, because he recognised the number of cuts as being typical of pre-war Antwerp; post-holocaust, the jewel-cutting moved to India, where, because the labor was cheaper, they made more cuts in the stones. Sometimes I wonder what happened to the jewelers who cut the stones on my wife's rings.

'And for men, a wedding band on his finger actually serves as an enticement to many women. Ew.'

If definitely makes it easier to make platonic friends with women, and one can engage in mild flirting without fearing that it will go anywhere. I think some single women are more comfortable with married men than single men friends, in the same way as some single women like gay men as friends.

But I've never noticed the ring being an enticement, or maybe I'm exceptionally thick. However, I am an engineer, with the accompanying sex-appeal suppression field.

On another note; we bought estate jewelry for our rings; the craftsmanship seemed to be better, and what you got for your money was more than for new jewelry.

I was especially taken with a palladium ring dating from WW2, when there was a shortage of platinum in the US, so they used palladium instead. I just had to have it as a wedding band. It's on the finger over the 'S' key as I type.

The jeweller we bought from could date the diamonds on my wife's rings to the 1930s, because he recognised the number of cuts as being typical of pre-war Antwerp; post-holocaust, the jewel-cutting moved to India, where, because the labor was cheaper, they made more cuts in the stones. Sometimes I wonder what happened to the jewelers who cut those stones.

when my fiancé and i first discussed rings, we came to the conclusion that we'd rather have no engagement ring, just wedding rings. however, his mother asked him if i'd like to wear his grandmother's quarter-carat diamond set in a white gold ring. I like it more for the heirloom quality, than any actual worth of the diamond. It showed how much my future-in-laws wanted me in the family. For wedding rings, we purchased aircraft grade titanium at Titanium Art Rings.

Rolfe,
Who upped the ante? Why, the jewelry industry, of course!
Another ironic aspect is that the more clear, and the few occlusions present, the more expensive a diamond is. The unattainable far end of that is perfect clarity and zero occlusions, which would be: a cubic zirconium! Which is far less expensive!
It's been my belief that the whole point is for the man to show his love by how much money he is willing to literally waste on her. Throwing money away on grand gestures for a woman's entertainment/approval is inherently romantic. At least, that's what I understood, but the women posting here today seem to belie that understanding.
Evidence: Big weddings are romantic. A beautiful wedding dress you never wear again is romantic. Paying for a firework display is romantic. Chocolates and filling a room with roses (that will be gone in 7 days) is romantic.
Buying a house as an engagement gift might be considered nice, but not romantic.
Practical is nearly NEVER romantic.

Tanzanite is both soft and brittle. Very Beautiful stone - but only on dress as opposed to everday Jewelry.

"'And for men, a wedding band on his finger actually serves as an enticement to many women. Ew.'"

I thought I noticed this effect when I first got married. It seemed like I was getting hit on when I was out with the guys. However, I was never sure if the ring made a difference, or maybe I was just more aware of the opportunities because I was newly married and watching what was going on in the bar was about as much fun as I was going to have :)

I bought a diamond engagement ring, and her wedding band is diamond too. However, I think both rings together maybe approached 1 month's income back then.

Also- single guys...skip the pawn shop ring and volunteer to babysit for your married friends with very young chidren. Then put that baby in the stroller and head to the mall. An apaprently single guy with a baby still in the totally helpless, aw isn't he/she cute is is the ultimate chick magnet.

wow.. enviro freaks and heavy conflict concerns (i'm a ruthless bastard.. what can i say)

you get her what she wants and what she'll be happy with.. and if you're not happy with her desires.. get another fiance!

2c D VVSI can usually do the trick... and yeah, its a waste of money.. but so's the wedding! and the cars, the clothes, the house, and pretty much everything in modern life, if you get right down to it

vive la luxe!!!

"'And for men, a wedding band on his finger actually serves as an enticement to many women. Ew.'"

To the extent that this may be true, it might have to do with the fact that married men (especially recently married) might not give a sh*t about meeting people anymore. As Elaine once said (I'm paraphrasing) on a Seinfeld episode, she respects men who don't think about her. If it's on tv, it must be true.

I bought an antique, do I get enviro points?

Diamonds are soaked in blood.

Fortunately, carbon in its crystalline form can be soaked in blood for weeks on end and still polish up nice and clear.

I didn't give a thought at all to the ring when I proposed because the ring wasn't the marriage. My (now) wife already had to claddaghs from me, with the gold one serving as an engagement. I did finally get her a diamond ring three years into the marriage because I know she wanted one. However, I think she preferred getting the house first.

My wife's ring is platinum with a 1.25 ct CZ. The money it would have cost for a diamond went into the down payment on the house.

Trust me on this. A woman likes a diamond, but she REALLY likes a house.

My ring is machined out of A-286 stainless, from a bar my dad brought home from the Rockwell surplus shop during the Apollo program. We got married on July 20, 30th anniversary of the landing on the moon.

We never got formally engaged; I never formally proposed to her. Once we admitted to ourselves that the relationship was permenant, we got matching tattoos. I made a ring for her, as wedding ring, but she ran out and got a plain gold band instead just before the wedding. Now (129 seasons later) she wears the braided silver wire ring I had made.

BTW, the earring which I have worn for the past 15 years is a hoop of UNS20910 stainless steel welding wire. I had written the Engineering Change Proposal which led to the U.S. Navy specifying this grade (AKA 22-13-5) for mine sweep gear. One of the earrings I had worn before that was 316 wire per a QQ-S spec, as called out by NASA for safety wiring of fasteners on ground support equipment.

Some very cool stories here. I also get the impression that engineering-types are well represented among Jane's readers (not that there's anything wrong with that).

My first reaction to posts like this is to shake my head at the wasteful extravagances of women - all that money on something as frivolous as a ring. Then I start to consider that our home theatre system costs significantly more than I spent on my wife's engagement ring. And my car is probably at least a couple of times more expensive than what I would have needed for basic transportation. Um, but those are practical extravagances, right?

I've recently become engaged to the most amazing man. When our early discussions of marriage occured, I had insisted that a "ring" was not something I required. He was adamant that I would have one. Upon further discussion, I had suggested that he need not spend a large sum of money on a ring, and that I would have greater interest in a sapphire as opposed to the standard diamond. Well, I got the shock of my life when he proposed. He had hand picked the 1.3 carat gem and custom designed the ring himself. It's truly a reflection of him and a true symbol of our love. As a side, the sapphire is also his birthstone. I'm the luckiest girl in the world to have such a wonderful man in my life.

I've recently become engaged to the most amazing man. When our early discussions of marriage occured, I had insisted that a "ring" was not something I required. He was adamant that I would have one. Upon further discussion, I had suggested that he need not spend a large sum of money on a ring, and that I would have greater interest in a sapphire as opposed to the standard diamond. Well, I got the shock of my life when he proposed. He had hand picked the 1.3 carat gem and custom designed the ring with 14 adorning diamonds himself. It's a reflection of him and a true symbol of our love. As a side, the sapphire is also his birthstone. I'm the luckiest girl in the world to have such a wonderful man in my life.

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