Asymmetrical Information

"How dare you compare me with Nazis? I knew Nazis. Nazis were good friends of mine. And I tell you, I do not compare with the Nazis."

Ha, I just noticed the headline you used for this post. Heh heh.

That's it. I'm cancelling my holiday in Italy as well.

One other thing. I do remember two incidents when I traveled in Italy recently.

First, in Florence. A restaurant had large signs posted in four languages, including German, "No Smoking, except outside". Four Germans came inside, sat down, and lit up. They feigned ignorance when asked to go outside, 'no comprendi Italiano' sez them. I went over and in my best German said "Heir Rauchen ist streng verboten." I was called an American Swine, but they left. Owner came over and brought me a brandy, complaining about Tedeschi Porci: Guess what that translates as...

Second, in Rome. Outside restaurant. People get up from luncheon. Literally before the table could be busted, four Germans jump the line and sit down. What happens? Italians jump up and start throwing rolls at them. More shouts of Tedeschi Porci, conveniently translating into German, also. Germans leave, complaining bitterly about lack of efficiency...

Schroeder will not be missed: he's another Tedeschi after all.

..."hyper-nationalistic blondes"?? Some sort of digital-age punk rock band? "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Groove!"

It never fails to amaze me how behavior like calling other government officials nasty names is a good thing until it happens to someone on the same aisle.

Ja, the German chattering classes HATE Berlusconi.
The cover of Der Spiegel (a German counterpart of The Economist) had a very unflattering picture of him with the title The Godfather. He's a private businessman, partially a Eurosceptic and doesn't fit into the comfortable socialist Eurocrat mold that the Germans and French insist upon. Worse, he's not anti-American.

I just came back from Germany (and France). I didn't get the feeling this is something that would excite the typical German, but the politicians and media could really stir this pot.

Ryan,

I think you're over-reaching.

On an objective note, I think most folks would agree that leaders calling each others names is a bad thing.

However, given the Schroeder government's little, ah, incident in which one of their own was calling George Bush a Nazi (or, more accurately, accused him of using Nazi tactics), what you're seeing, I suspect, is a bit of schadenfreude as they get their medicine back.

That, plus a generally greater sympathy, on the part of many conservatives, for leaders that have tended to support the US over those who have tended not to.

Honestly, some of my best friends are Germans (well, at least I have some German friends), and I don't mean to slander the entire group, but since the the cliche' of Ugly American is widely accepted, I will note that I have seen more examples of rude behavior from German tourists, on six continents. I remember visiting the Topkapi Palace in Istanbul, in a room in which a lock of what was said to be the Prophet's hair was on display. Now, whether one actually believed it to be so or not, basic courtesy to one's hosts called for some silent respect when waiting in the long line as it entered the room and approached the object that one's hosts held sacred. Nearly everyone in line, of all nationalities, did so, with the exception of a group of Germans, who carried on as if they were waiting in a line to enter a disco, right up to and including their time in fron of the object itself. I noted the reaction of contempt from the Turks who were in the room. I've also had the displeasure of flying from Frankfurt to Bangkok on a flight filled with German men embarking on a sex tour of Thai children. I felt like I needed a 3 day shower when I disembarked. Americans can can be boorish as hell, but if the Germans had become the predominant world power they wouldn't have been any better, and not just because it would have meant that the Nazis had prevailed.

Wow.. cancelling your vacation to Italy is SURE to show you're not hyper-nationalistic.

"He's a private businessman, partially a Eurosceptic and doesn't fit into the comfortable socialist Eurocrat mold that the Germans and French insist upon. Worse, he's not anti-American."

I understand the uses of political rhetoric, but come now, you must surely recognize that there are real reasons to lack respect for Berlusconi that have nothing to do with his views on CAP or VAT.

When I saw "hypernationalistic blondes", I assumed at first that I was seeing yet another Ann Coulter thread. . .:-)

I think the U. S. should sit out the next European war which should be along shortly. Move U.S. bases East to Poland and out of harm's way.

I suppose the question is whether the flap is representative of German dislike for Italy or merely the Berlusconi gov't. If the former, an 'ever closer union' indeed. If the latter, well, then the Italian PM is just another (temporary) inconvenience for the superstatists.

Fred Boness: "Move U.S. bases East to Poland and out of harm's way."

The Poles might have something to say about that, Polish enthusiasm for the idea has been pretty muted.

Back on topic, Berlusconi's a petty tyrant and Schroeder's a failing demogogue, not exactly Clash of the Titans.

I do wonder if Berlusconi bothers to think at all before he opens his mouth.

When my wife and I visited Italy in May, we observed that the talkative folks ignoring the prominent "silence" signs in the Sistine Chapel and St. Mark's in Venice were invariably speaking German or sometimes (American) English...in St. Mark's, I saw one group of young German tourists pointing and laughing at the "no photography" signs and snapping off a few pictures purely out of spite.

Even though I know there were ten quiet, respectful tourists for every one of the noisemakers, I started feeling some xenephobia creeping in. I can't imagine how an Italian who sees it day after day in their own country must feel.

Tempest in a teapot. The only people who'll change their travel plans because of this are the few actual hypernationalistic types.

Btw, the Italian minister has stepped down. The travel industry there threatened to take the Berlusconi administration to court, so Steffani had to yield.

Another point, I've never been called a Tedesco Porco and I'm in Italy all the time. The Italians don't want to risk that the 10 million German tourists go elsewhere.

And a last point: I haven't noticed are more rude than American ones.

That should have been

"The Italians don't want to risk having the 10 million German tourists go elsewhere".

I think Berlusconi and his government should be themselves aware of Italy's past. After all, Fascism is an Italian invention. And remember, there are two very unpalatable partners in his coalition: an openly xenophobic party and a party barely concealing its neo-fascistic credentials. I'd recommend them to be quiet about "ultra-nationalism".

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