Asymmetrical Information

Jane -

I think everything you have been saying about abortion is reasonable and true, and that most of it should be self-evident to a thoughtful person.

Most of the passion on this topic comes from values and beliefs that people choose to hold, rather than from facts that can be objectively determined - and you do the best job I've ever seen of describing this, along with its effects.

I hope people people aren't yelling at you - I think it would be undeserved. Thank you for your thoughts and your writings.

p.s. - 'Whoever tells the truth should have one foot in the stirrup'.

Megan,

Great series of posts! This represents some of the most reasoned presentation of the issue I have seen.

I have an adopted son who is damned glad he wasn't aborted instead. I also have a daughter-in-law who is an adoptee who is damned glad she wasn't aborted instead.

I believe you are correct that if the only abortions performed every year in the US were to "correct" unwanted pregnancies resulting from rape or incest, we wouldn't be taliking about the issue, no less screaming at each other about it.

I remain fascinated by the number of graduates of our government schools who have passed a mandatory course which includes putting a condom on a banana or cucumber, but cannot figure out how to install one on an erect penis. I guess their sex ed teachers weren't "teaching to the test".

I guess "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." requires the exercise of an unreasonable amount of responsibility, no less self-control.

Probably I oughtn't to encourage these abortion posts because you must get some MEEEEEEEAN letters, and so, you ought to cool it.

BUT: damn, thanks for writing this stuff. I think a hell of a lot of the country (like me) basically thinks, yeah, this probably needs to be legal --- and we're embarassed and ashamed that we haven't any better ideas how to keep young women's lives from getting ruined bwhen they get pregnant, and how to ensure good care for all the children who come into the world. And we're alienated and repelled by the rhetoric you attack here --- but basically we feel like, yeah, this probably needs to be legal --- and so we support the fools who spew it. But it's nice once in a while to hear someone say this stuff out loud (as it were). I suspect if a politician articulated it like this, most Americans would by and large like what he/she was saying (and he/she would lose....)

It's such a nice change of pace to see another libertarian woman unimpressed by either sect of the Cult of Abortion.

I hope your feelings won't be hurt when you're accused of not being a "real" libertarian.

One point you haven't touched on: how the pro-abortion faction use sickening euphemisms like "a woman's right to choose". To those who have read writings from the 1850's about slavery, there is a resonance with the "peculiar institution".

An irrelevant note: the phrase "peculiar institution" uses an obsolete meaning of "peculiar" having to do with property, not oddity. Perhaps some of the people using it in the US were making a deliberate pun, but there's evidence that educated use favored the now-obsolete meaning.

Some politician (sorry, don't remember who) once said, "Most people in this country are pro-choice AND anti-abortion".

Jane has done a good job of speaking for those of us who agree with the above statement.

I concur that this is the best I have read, and thank you.

I think the abortion issue is used as a proxy for cultural issues: "are you one of us?" That is,

Are you one of us, who believes in an absolute right and wrong?

Are you one of us, who believes that moral absolutes lead to oppression?

Most Americans believe some of both. They are suspicious of rule-makers, and suspicious about slippery slopes that might end with their being cut up for sandwiches someday.

Just thanks.

Something I've always been curious about is this: what, exactly, prevents Congress from passing a law saying something like "for purposes of United States law, fertilized eggs and fetuses shall be considered human babies"?

I'm kinda surprised, in a way (a hopeful, believing in ideas and principles and assuming other people do to) and kinda not surprised in a way (a realization that ideals are often a cover for self-interest) to find that the Libertarians aren't avidly pro-life.

Of course, they say, well, I don't believe a chunk of fetal matter is alive, to which I say, are you absolutely certain? Because if you aren't your libertarian logic would force you, if you took it seriously, to be one of the most hard-nosed of the rockfaced pro-lifers.

The fact that they don't makes me suspect them of being libertines, rather than libertarians.

And no, I'm not trying to yell at you. You seem to be following a more reality based attitude than most libertarians on this issue.

If abortion becomes against the law the law will need to be enforced.

If our drug laws are any indication we will need a Pregnancy Enforcement Administration. The PEA. The PEA brains will need to have enforcers and snitches and the whole repressive apparatus for control.

And instead of 20,000 or so murder investigations a year we will have to have 200,000 murder investigations. And prisons. And guards. etc.

All this for a practice that is at least 2,500 years old.

Now perhaps, despite 2,500 years of moral opprobrium, it is possible that a practice of such long standing has some value to humans. Like drugs drugs for instance.

And of course every miscarriage will need a murder investigation.

And women will need to be watched for tell tale signs of pregnancy.

And how about those anonymous tip lines. Great for those who have a grudge. Accusations will need to be followed up. The woman in question will need to go to a government certified lab for inspectiion.

Well if that is the way it is going to be - I want to be Chief Inspector. For the right consideration, I'm sure the charges can be dropped as unfounded or at least inconclusive.

And don't forget the problem of fetal alcohol syndrome. Perhaps alcohol prohibition for women ages 10 to 60 is in order. FAS is a serious problem and requires a serious solution.

It is obvious that we do not have enough secret police (undercover operatives) in America.

I am going to love the "tender breast" check - preliminay signs of a possible pregnancy.

Or perhaps we can have trained dogs who will sniff (up close and personal) and alert if there is the right smell. My dog is going to alert not only for the correct smells but also when I give the secret hand sign.

In the PEA our best operatives will be certified as VIPs. Vagina Inspection Police.

The possibilities are endless.

"And no one, except the activists getting pleasurably hysterical over margaritas and mango salsa"

It's the activists' *audience* getting "pleasurably hysterical over margaritas and mango salsa". The activists themselves are putting in a hard day's work generating the hysteria that keeps the donations rolling in.

If we are really serious women will need to be government pregnancy checked every week. Maybe daily.

Suppose we do it weekly. Suppose doing the test costs $25. And say there are about 100 million women who between 10 and 60.

For a cost of only about $130 billion a year we can eliminate abortion. Given the usual mark up and administration requirements say $250 billion. For only a quarter trillion a year we can eliminate at least 99% of all abortions.

Of course the women will need to be watched giving samples and video taped to make sure the watchers aren't getting frisky. Or helping too much.

I think a big market might open up for "hair stylists". To make sure the videos look good. And the feminine hygyne product lobby will certainly be a supporter once they understand the possibilities.

And if some of the tapes make the 'net? No problem. There is no right to privacy. Especially from the government.

And of course every woman in America will need to become enrolled in the PEA database. Those PEA brains think of everything.

Interesting that the last few posters follow the exact pattern of hysteria you discuss - reasonable people know that none of the things they mention will happen if abortions are restricted. Why are they hysterical about saving babies? Why do they not seem to care that some of these precious ones will be born alive after saline abortion which burns them, some live with cut off legs and arms. I've seen the results and heard some of the survivors who were adopted by a loving family after they survived. To partially deliver a baby alive, bore a hole in its head, and vacuum out the contents (its brain, folks). This is what you are hysterically trying to preserve?
I did find your analysis interesting and I believe you are correct about the majority of Americans. However, the majority seem to have no power in this debate.

we will need a Pregnancy Enforcement Administration

Why? We don't have a separate branch of the government for most other crimes.

All this for a practice that is at least 2,500 years old

Slavery was older than that when we banned it. Were we wrong to fail to respect its long history? Come to think of it, where's the Slavery Enforcement Administration we apparently ought to need?

One of my brothers saw a doctor for back pain at around age 30, & found out for the first time that he had spina bifida. I don't know how they missed it before – we used to call him Donald Duck when he was a toddler b/c of the way his diapered backside stuck out. He has 3 vertebrae that never completely closed. Ain't science wonderful? It has advanced to the point where people like him might not make it into the world.

The insight for me actually came earlier, when I heard my son's heartbeat on the doppler probe at 12 weeks. I know this is not the most rigorous legal argument that could be advanced, but it was sufficient for my purposes.

I thought M. Simon was someone's sock puppet.

Hey, be careful. The Freemasons are after the world's supply of titanium, too.

Dan,

We have a DEA why not a PEA?

We have a DEA why not a PEA?

Presumably because drugs are a big enough percentage of total crime to merit their own special agency. Abortion won't be. Abortion was rare before it was made legal, and birth-control technology has since become cheap and nearly foolproof.

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