February 1, 2007

silhouette3.JPG From the desk of Jane Galt:

Odd moment of self-recognition

As I've mentioned before, I do not attach a high probability to the existence of God. Even less do I believe that an omniscient, omnipotent being will change His mind because I tell Him how much I want something. I presume that, along with everything else, He already knows my desires. If He exists, that is.

So why was I praying "Please, please please let him be all right" as I waited on the phone for Finnegan's results? With Whom was I mentally bargaining to give up some of my own health in exchange for his continued well-being? More curiously, why did I continue these imprecations after I had noticed myself doing it? Even after I had pointed out to myself that I did not, in fact, believe that they would have any effect? Enquiring minds want to know.

Posted by Jane Galt at February 1, 2007 4:04 PM | TrackBack | Technorati inbound links
Comments
Posted by: answer on February 1, 2007 4:28 PM

"Why was I praying..."

The answer is obvious, I would think. What have you got to lose by praying?

Posted by: Rob Lyman on February 1, 2007 4:37 PM

On prayer: Why does my son say "please" after making his desires clear to me? Because he knows I won't give anything to him if he doesn't. I intend to hammer gentlemanly behavior into him starting early.

Is there something fundamental about God that makes a similar principle impossible to accept?

As for the rest, I have no answer other than perhaps wishful thinking.

Posted by: Brad Hutchings on February 1, 2007 4:40 PM

Seriously, it shows that you really care about your dog. It also shows that you haven't fallen into the dour existentialist trap of not giving a damn despite not believing in some explicit higher power.

The terminology vets (and doctors) use can be very scary, because it has precise medical meanings but scary colloquial connotations. "Tumor" is one of those words. To a physician, it means a growth. My pediatrician (many years ago obviously) told me that a zit was technically, a tumor. Kinda lightens the emotional load to have that perspective.

I have two dogs (one Boxer mix and a one Boxer/Dobie mix). Before I officially adopted the second one, she was staying with us for a few months as a favor to a friend. Anyway, she was about a year old at the time, and developed a nasty one of these on her neck. I was pretty scared by it because it would ooze and bleed occasionally, especially after rough play with the other dog. And of course, she'd scratch it and the other dog would lick at it, etc. My vet first said to watch it, then removed it. My vet also said these were common with short haired dogs (as opposed to short nosed as the article states) like Dobies and that she might have these crop up her entire life or it might be the only episode. She hasn't had any in two years and is a very healthy, active dog now.

I too hope he'll be alright!! Perhaps we could add Finnegan's good health to Arnold Kling's new platform for libertarian conservatives. Good a place as any to state our wishes without appealing to some God.

Posted by: august on February 1, 2007 4:47 PM

The default for humans is belief in the existence of God.
Faith, in the context of the world's religions, refered to whether or not you believed what God was saying, promising, or what this-or-that person was saying for God.

So, you instinctively, start to treat this entity you don't intellectually believe in as a person when the emotional investment is high enough. Prayer is about developing a relationship, and in relationships we rehash a lot of stuff that we logically shouldn't have to- except that it's psychologically satisfying.

I wonder, if you feed the dog turkey, would the tryptophan make him sleepy? Then he'd slow down and minimize ulceration.
I hope tomorrow is better for you.

Posted by: prayer on February 1, 2007 4:55 PM

As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are his children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7: 7-11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/p/54

Posted by: dorkafork on February 1, 2007 4:58 PM

Maybe you just wanted to feel like you had some control over the situation. It's understandable.

Posted by: D------ on February 1, 2007 5:44 PM

Do atheists/agnostics/agnotheists make better use of their time than religious/spiritual people? Do they get more done because they do not pray or attend a religious service? Who knows?

What if (as we hope) your dog ends up fine? Will that lead you to doubt your agnotheism or will you chalk it up to luck and a capable vet?

God answers all prayers. Sometimes, the answer is no. For me and perhaps other believers, when it's no, it does hurt (especially when it involves a family member, a friend, a pet, or some deeply personal goal). But I know there might be a reason that I cannot see in the short-run why the prayer was denied.

I know there are a few things/causes I have prayed for that I am glad were denied. (I won't you bore you with details.)

Posted by: AJ on February 1, 2007 5:52 PM

It's hard wired. Since my mother has been fighting MDS (myelodysplastic syndromes) and refractory thrombocytopenia, it's startling the number of times I've prayed to the God of my childhood. Of course, I'm completely upfront with Him about my agnosticism, and He's given no indication that He objects to my making contact.

And whenever I ask for a small miracle I make sure to ask for some additional miracles for others even more in need. (For the doubters out there, none of my requests have been the kind that, if granted, would make headlines. So you can't take the media's failure to report as evidence of His non-existence or indifference.)

Whatever else it does, prayer done right does help focus the mind and satisfies the need (as another poster indicated) for some amount of control. As my devout Catholic father always said, "Pray as if everything depends on God; act as though everything depends on you." Sure, it's a hedge, but certainly not advice?

Good luck to you and Finnegan.

Posted by: mjh on February 1, 2007 5:55 PM

There are (at least) two possible answers:

  1. It provides a psychological sedative, or
  2. Despite all your rationalizations, there really is a God.
As a Christian, obviously, I think it's #2. I can't disprove #1. I just tend to put a higher probability on #2.

The analogy, to me, comes by way of Descartes. I can't entirely discount the idea that anyone else in the world isn't just a figment of my imagination. But the fact that I'm frequently accosted by what appear (for all the world) like other people, and the fact that I continually try to interact with them as if they're real, I give higher probability to the idea that other people are real. I can't totally discount the possibility that they are all really just figments of my incredibly active imagination. But I don't give a lot of weight to that. The prepoderance of the evidence suggests that other people are real.

I would suggest that it's times like this, when you don't have the psychological strength to maintain your rationalizations that you're seeing reality. Of course, I can't prove this, but neither can I prove that I briefly woke up at 3:00 am this morning. Not being able to prove it doesn't distract me from thoroughly believing it to be true.

Posted by: AJ on February 1, 2007 5:57 PM

Sorry -- Correction of last line: "certainly not ^BAD^ advice"

Posted by: j mct on February 1, 2007 6:13 PM

To explain the traditional Christian view of this, which you can accept or reject, but at least if reject it you'll know what you're rejecting.

Christianity does agree that God knows what Megan really wants, but it doesn't necessarily agree that Megan knows what she really wants. God knows that what Megan really wants, even if she doesn't know, is to be an Excellent Human Being a Most Excellent Human Being, being described as 'sinless'. In traditional moral thought a sin is not an act, but a character flaw that might lead to an act. So Megan seems to have been willing to voluntarily suffer for the benefit of someone else (though not to say that the object is illegitimate, the capacity certainly isn't, the sentiment is better directed at a human, and one should arrange one's life so the object of the sentiment is a human), in imitation of who?

Your prayer has been granted.

Posted by: Joshua Macy on February 1, 2007 6:15 PM

So it seems you've observed that emotional stress makes people irrational, and that noticing that a behavior is irrational doesn't actually stop the urge to indulge in it. This is news? Or, to put it another way, why should you be different from everybody else on the planet?

Oh, and I hope Finnegan is all right.

Posted by: Angus McWasp on February 1, 2007 6:47 PM

A life without God can often seem rational. It just may not be possible.

Posted by: Lou on February 1, 2007 6:57 PM

Habit and/or conditioning. I'm an atheist and my wife (who isn't) is continually bothered when I say things like, "Thank God that didn't happen to us." In fact I probably say Thank God at least once a day on average. Why? What the else am I supposed to say? Whew, that was good luck? That's 5 words!

The fact is that we've almost all been conditioned to pray, to say thank god, to say 'God Bless You' when someone sneezes (as I do as well). You know, I swear a lot too, and I actively try not to do that because it actually has negative consequences, and yet most of the time I fail...it's a hard habit to break.

Also saying our feelings out loud helps us understand and deal with them better. But saying, "I feel awful about my Dog and I hope he knows that I would do anything to make him better even at great cost to myself" sounds just as awkward to say as it just did to read. Saying, "Please, please, please let him be better, I'll do anything" makes the same point and emotionally resonates because you can relate to the feeling of sincere prayer having seen it demonstrated by others, even if you don't believe yourself.

When my son was stillborn I told him all about his family who would be waiting for him in heaven. I don't, and didn't, believe in heaven or God, and he of course couldn't hear me, but it gave me a framework to talk to him, and therefore myself, and express my love for him. Those were the only words and concepts I'd ever seen used in that situation, so it is what I grasped, and I didn't for a minute feel any cognitive dissonance. It's a fable, but that doesn't mean it can't be touching or emotionally revealing.

Whew, enough words. I hope that Finnegan is well!

Posted by: Alsadius on February 1, 2007 6:58 PM

You're attaching a name to "I hope", and I'd assume that 90% of the reason you're doing it is societal and personal habit. I'm an agnotheist who uses religious language all the time - it's not literally what I mean, but it's the language best used to get my point across. Hell, it even works a bit better for me than it would for a religious type - I don't have to worry about blaspheming a religion I don't believe in, after all.

Posted by: William Ryan on February 1, 2007 7:32 PM

Megan,
You're learning the difference between theology and religion.
I've given this a lot of thought, ever since I had two children. I go walking through the 200+ year old graveyard down the road from my house, and see a husband and wife buried next to each other, and nearby are the graves of three of their children who all died within a week of each other - at ages 1 year, 3 years, and 6 years - probably of some disease. Ye gods.
Theology is what we discuss in dorm room bull sessions and philosophy seminars. Religion helps us get through our lives.

Posted by: The Giant Spaghetti Monster on February 1, 2007 7:39 PM

What Lou said. Beyond the personal inculcation of habit in one's own life, we are a social species by nature. We have language which is basically instinctual. Part of any society is getting along, asking for things. Getting most of what you want in life comes down to others giving it to you, at least in modern times.

So, it is very natural, when faced with something you want, to "ask" even if what you are asking is the disembodied impersonal universe in some past tense sense. "Please, Mr molecules of the last 5..15 weeks, don't have been too metastatic!!!" But it feels (appropriately) stupid to ask things of past tense molecules. So, you ask "god". And it feels more reasonable - it would feel off to want something badly and just not ask. So, you ask.

It's just an emotional reaction to an emotional situation, and that's fine. Don't beat yourself up about it. The only thing is to not have any expectation that things will be different because you ask. Just asking...that's something "for you". Expecting...optimal decision theory, etc, all that's a different ballgame. Even the theists will say the answer could be no for reasons that will never be made clear and that God won't assume you want bad outcomes. So, even there asking is redundant. Asking is tantamount to an internal advocacy...an evocation of hope...rooting for an outcome. It's a ritual that comforts, not a procedure that achieves...It's just an extension of the "negotiation instinct" if there is such a thing.

Posted by: Kevin on February 1, 2007 8:22 PM

There's a difference between expressing a desire and praying. Talking to yourself - reviewing a to-do list out loud, perhaps - isn't having a conversation.

Posted by: yr mom on February 1, 2007 9:01 PM

Because you have a soul, Jane, and your God within is your link to God without, which is really just the same thing if one thinks on eternity and the infinite for long enough. Nothing unconnected ever occurs.

And because you love your dog. Prayer is an expression of love and hope. And you are just telling God how very much you love your dog.

Just because God is omniscient, doesn't mean he's paying attention to everything at every moment. That's what free will is for. And your soul.

So now God will be paying very close attention to your dog.

Posted by: Doug on February 1, 2007 9:03 PM

Megan, perhaps you have observed that there are things in your consciousness, (do we dare call it a "soul"?) which are difficult to explain away if you are but a random, transitory accident of the cosmos. You feel that some things are, or should be significant. Like the person you prayed for. If we know of someone suffering, we care, because it is significant. If someone dies, something significant has happened. I do not yet know of a satisfactory explanation for a random little bit of life, somehow sentient, deeply desiring to be significant. That would not seem to be logical. Such a being seemingly should feel quite comfortable about the apparent meaninglessness of it all. We aren't. Dawkins isn't. Singer isn't. Strange, is it not?

I hope you come to know in a personal way the Source of your significance and meaningfulness.

Posted by: NTropy on February 1, 2007 10:34 PM

Because prayer isn't about changing God - it's about changing you.

Posted by: TW Andrews on February 1, 2007 11:05 PM

Prayer and the religious impulse are pretty deeply seated in the the human psyche. Even if, in your more rational moments, you don't believe that it's likely that God exists, it's not the least bit surprising that you would prevail upon the infinite (fate, God, the Universe) in such a situation. People have been doing it for tens of thousands of years.

Posted by: Zhong Lu on February 1, 2007 11:14 PM

Dear God:

If you exist, please grant me:

(1. One million dollars. Or maybe two. Though winning the powerball lottery would be fine too.)

(2. Make me a math genius!)

(3. Turn me into a giant walking pickle.)

(3. Be young and live forever.)

... It never hurts to ask.

Posted by: Alsadius on February 2, 2007 12:16 AM

Zhong - Actually, I'm pretty sure "it never hurts to ask" doesn't apply to being turned into a giant walking pickle. Because that could hurt. A lot. Do *you* really want to be saturated with vinegar?

Posted by: Foobarista on February 2, 2007 12:30 AM

My best proof of the existence of God is that atheism appears to be a genetic recessive. The more secular a society, the lower its birthrate, to the point where highly secular societies are on the verge of population implosions.

Posted by: triticale on February 2, 2007 12:40 AM

When I surprised myself by praying it wasn't on behalf of anyone close to me. It was back when we lived in Chicago and I noticed a low-flying white helicopter heading swiftly toward Children's Memorial Hospital.

Posted by: Ryan on February 2, 2007 1:52 AM

As to why you prayed even when you thought it would do not good - Pascal's wager.

I don't buy that. She was bargaining. If she was willing to give something up, then the cost to her wasn't negligible. Unless she unconsciously assumes that an all powerful and merciful God wouldn't actually extract any payment from her.

Good luck and God Bless Jane. And a little bit of b-vitamin complex (not too much more than the USRDA) + Vitamin C is good for helping your body deal with stress.

Posted by: Dan on February 2, 2007 3:30 AM

So why was I praying "Please, please please let him be all right" as I waited on the phone for Finnegan's results?

Because it is human nature to try to bargain our way out of unpleasant situations. We're social creatures.

Posted by: Navigator on February 2, 2007 9:52 AM

Same reason there are no atheists in a foxhole.

Posted by: Michael on February 2, 2007 10:05 AM

As the infant begins to perceive there is an outer world, he/she postulates there are 2 mothers, one in whom there is complete security, and one who, reflected in the infant's unmet need, would destroy them (cf. Giovachini). It is later that these images are consolidated. Faced with destruction, we regress and ask for that one which would preserve us. Rabbi S. Zimmerman said that the lost Hebrew word for G-d was a totally vowel form of a variation of the word 'to be...'

Posted by: Peter on February 2, 2007 10:15 AM

I find it amusing how many NFL teams engage in group prayer just before games. No matter what some die-hard fans may think, God really, really does not care which team wins.

Posted by: Klug on February 2, 2007 10:59 AM

Peter:

In John Feinstein's book "Next Man Up", he actually covers the NFL's relationship to religion. Needless to say, it's complex and not entirely theologically accurate. I think it is the risk of injury (career-ending or otherwise) that is at the root of it.

Posted by: Randy on February 2, 2007 11:05 AM

The function of the brain is to solve problems. What we call reasoning is just the brain running through combinations of connections looking for one that works. It doesn't give up just because it knows that the probability of success is low. It will try less and less probable connections until it is satisfied that one is either working or will work. And that's what god is - a connection that satisfies the brain (and also why we buy lottery tickets and why there are no atheists in foxholes). Well, at least it satisfies temporarily. There's a reason that all religions rely heavily on rituals and professions of faith. Without them, the brain will immediately begin looking for a new connection - one that works better.

Posted by: Randy on February 2, 2007 11:27 AM

P.S. There is no problem solved by the idea of "god" that is not just as well solved by the idea that "shit happens".

Posted by: bearing on February 2, 2007 12:28 PM

Today I'm holding my baby daughter in my arms, hoping that she keeps down the dose of antibiotics that I just gave her, because if she keeps throwing them up, I will have to take her back to the hospital for another IV infusion, because the strain of E. coli that has infected her kidneys has proved to be resistant to all but one antibiotic that can be given by mouth.

And trying to think one step at a time, not moving forward yet to the (real) possibility of long-term kidney damage.

I've been praying a lot this week.

I don't know whether God is more likely to help me out because I'm praying, or not.

I grit my teeth and find that it's very, very, very hard to pray "Not my will, but Yours, be done." And to pray, "Whatever happens, I will be thankful that You gave her to me."

Meanwhile I turn to the baby herself and ask her, please, to keep the medicine down, and to stay with me. Since she's not quite six months old, I suppose this is an irrational thing to do. But it's the truest urge in my heart to ask her this.

BTW, I am not trying to be sarcastic when I add: Sorry about your dog. I mean it. I've had pets, too, and I know how much they can be loved.

Posted by: judson on February 2, 2007 1:11 PM

Try conversing with Finnegan directly as I do when my dogs are sick or hurt or afraid. I've never prayed for anything in my life. But I have tried to esp into peoples and animals minds to let them know what I want. No 'god' required, just me and them.

Posted by: Christina on February 2, 2007 2:08 PM

I have the same problem as you Megan, my principled lack of belief goes out the window during grave circumstances. It precisely this problem that has caused me to label myself agnostic even though I don't really believe in God. Because if I really don't believe in it, then why would I pray?

Megan, I think you would benefit from some study of Eastern Religions/Philosophies. Coming from the Judeo-Christian background the concept of God can seem pretty limited when packaged with the usual cast of corresponding divine human actors. I know that I will never be able to accept the divinity of Christ, nor the "propheteering" of Mohammad, so Islam and Christianity are automatically disqualified. Judaism has already disqualified me for not having a jewish mom.

Hinduism, which I thought would be a step away from primitive anamist beliefs thanks to Judeo-Christian animus towards polytheism, has very interesting and important things to say on the nature of God. Buddhism is even more intersting: Buddha himself was agnostic.

The Chinese philosophies, especially Taoism and Confucianism, don't even preoccupy themselves with the metaphysics, letting local primitive gods handle that load while they worry about proscribing appropriate behavior.

What is interesting about all of those "religions" is that they are not based around the idea of "heavenly grace" but of doing good. It changes the dynamics significantly when compared to Christianity and Islam.

Posted by: T.B. Murphy on February 2, 2007 2:11 PM

I can't help you on the God thing. I am believer in God, if not organized religion. So I pray. I hope for the best for your dog. I have two dogs myself, and never want to go through what you're going through now.

Posted by: Bryan Stanford on February 2, 2007 2:49 PM

I'm in my last semester of undergraduate study, and am taking a graduate level econometrics course. I, like Megan, consider myself an agnotheist. While studying statistics in depth, I had an Oh-shit moment. It seems to me that "God" is just a representative of the error term, epsilon. A recognition of what we cannot/will not ever be able to know. Since Megan knows her stats, I was wondering her thoughts...

Posted by: judson on February 2, 2007 3:03 PM

agnotheist

that.means.nothing.

you believe or you don't or you don't know. forget percentages of certainty

Posted by: Randy on February 2, 2007 3:23 PM

Judson,

I agree that the term sucks, but nobody knows. The people who believe or don't believe don't know either. So really, percentages of certainty is all there is. It just needs a better name.

Posted by: Justin on February 2, 2007 3:47 PM

I'm the opposite of Jane. I believe in God, but in many ways it is more of an intellectual belief than a personal one.

But to answer her question about 'why would God want people to pray to Him' the answer is fairly simple. God wants a loving, personal relationship with you. He sets aside a large amount of time to spend with you (the merits of being omnipresent), but He wants you to set aside some time to spend with Him.

Posted by: dj superflat on February 2, 2007 4:01 PM

it's pretty much impossible to be nonreligious in most western society, in that even if you don't believe, there's this incredibly pervasive framework of religious belief underpinning just about everything (think how much music is religious (including prince, stevie wonder, aretha, etc.), how much literature involves folk praying for relief, how much philosophy wrestles with god, etc.). so it may just be conditioning, based on history, literature, music, etc.

but i suspect that humans are wired to believe in higher beings (not necessarily specifically, it may just be that the various voices of consciousness are easily misunderstood as external beings, etc.). because most completely nonreligious people nevertheless turn to prayer, may even stroll into a church, when things get dead serious. or maybe that's just learned habit.

either way, it seems adaptive because, regardless of what you think of organized religious, many, many people have been comforted by faith in time of need (i say these as a nonreligious person, but it appears to be true).

Posted by: Isocrates on February 2, 2007 4:20 PM

Is it possible to attach probabilities to the existence of God? On what data would such an estimation be based? Some questions might be unanswerable, in which case the answers people offer say more about them than about the question itself.

As for prayer, it can still have a salutary effect even if it does not persuade God "to change His mind"--assuming He exists at all. If it does, as I suspect, then those who pray are behaving rationally. To forgo prayer out of dogmatic atheism would then seem very foolish indeed.

Posted by: Brien on February 2, 2007 10:41 PM

Had a similar experience. Likes yours, it was a spontaneous imploring that another would escape imiminet peril. It was sudden, unpremeditated, and felt physically as if were arising from a deep crevice and reverberating at cellular level.

Before I'd been a casual atheist -- thought the notion of God incoherent and for me, irrelevant. After this episode though I decided that I wouldn't be quite so dismissive. At the very least, given how profoundly I called for his aid, I thought it almost self-contradictory to deny his existance, especially so superficially. I decided then to hold the question as open. This is probably a species of agnosticism, but even that word suggests an unwarranted degree of conclusiveness.

The God as character who does or doesn't intervene in the world still doesn't resonate with me. Yet the back of the Economist impresses me weekly that world's magnificent scientific enterprise is still scratching the surface. We're just understanding that much of the muchness of this universe is dark matter and that we don't even really know how gravity works. If science has retired many of old mysteries of the world (tree spirits, etc.), it seems conscientious about replacing them with new ones.

I wouldn't make a fetish of mysteries. You can certainly decide interior and exterior mysteries only prove our ignorance. Yet, twisting Larkin's line in "Church Going" a bit, we are surprised by the hunger in ourselves. It feels like a fact of being. Whether it betokens, embodies or enables our connections to others, I think it is worthy of acknowledgement and the occasional reflection about what it might connect us to.

Posted by: Richard on February 3, 2007 12:36 AM

... and yet, we have these religious feelings.

Posted by: Emmett on February 3, 2007 2:03 AM

I feel like this is a good blog to broach this subject – should I educate my child in a religious school?

Full disclosure: I am an atheist, married to a Christian who believes strongly in her faith. All’s cool because she’s not a big churchgoer and she understands that we share the same moral philosophy.

But now we’re thinking about our child’s education (this is where religion becomes tricky). If the best school is religions, should I send my child there? In my area, the good schools are associated with a religion. I attended a great Episcopal school for 10 years and loved it. Religion wasn’t pressed too much, and more importantly, I learned a lot. Our public schools are suspect, so we’re likely leaning toward private. Thoughts?

Posted by: Ryan on February 3, 2007 2:41 AM

Peter - I find it amusing how many NFL teams engage in group prayer just before games. No matter what some die-hard fans may think, God really, really does not care which team wins.

There's more to life than just winning and losing. Injuries, as mentioned, and how a person handles the credit for success or defeat. Furthermore, a lot of religion is about social organizaiton (try to look past the 'God as miracleworker' view of God for a moment here) and so is teamwork.


Christina- Judaism has already disqualified me for not having a jewish mom.

This isn't exactly true; While Judiasm is not evangelical, non-jews can convert. Typically, a lot of reading is required first, to ensure a person's committment is genuine.

Second, in the Jewish view most of the biblical commandments are for the Jewish people, and non-jews are to follow the Noachide laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noachide_laws

The Noachide laws are listed as;

1. Idolatry - You shall not make for yourself an idol.
2. Murder - You shall not murder.
3. Theft - You shall not steal.
4. Sexual Promiscuity - You shall not commit adultery.
5. Blasphemy - You shall not blaspheme.
6. Cruelty to Animals - Do not eat the flesh of a living animal.
7. Government - You shall set up an effective government to police the preceding six laws.

Randy-So really, percentages of certainty is all there is. It just needs a better name.

Yeah, there's the question of odds, but more importantly there's the question of how you place your bets.

Posted by: anony-mouse on February 3, 2007 4:08 AM

The body is the home of the soul and spirit. The spirit can rationalize that there is no God and permit the soul to govern the body, but when the soul is shaken by events that the body can do nothing about, then the spirit must finally contemplate the real meaning of its existence.

Human pride being what it is, it often takes such a situation to break the spirit loose from the comforts those rationalizations have previously given.

Agnotheism is a pretext that can neither teach you in this, nor comfort you on your deathbed. Go deeper.

Posted by: Karl Smith on February 3, 2007 10:41 AM

Who was I praying to

Source of authority.

I am not sure if it is hardwired into our brains because we are social creatures (the same as your dog is hardwired to want your approval) or if it is because we spend our formative years under someone elses control but virtually everyone appeals to authority in time of need.

Just as people suck on cuts even if there is no poison, or scratch itches even if they know it will only increase the inflammation, we have the urge to deal with uncomfortable situations in ways dictated by evolution and upbringing.

Posted by: newscaper on February 3, 2007 6:27 PM

For Megan,
I've come to realize that "faith", far from just pre-scientific superstition, is a *functional* adaptation in evolutionary terms. It is one solution to what I call the "tragedy of sapience" -- the awareness of death. It is fairly easy to intellectually accept the realiy of one's own mortality, but the premanent death of those one loves? A spouse, or worse, a child while you yourself still live?
Compared to that bleakness, I'm not ready to mock "Faith" anymore -- even if it is not objectively true.

For Emmett, regarding the religious school -- I am effectively an atheist-agnostic who was raised Catholic. However, istead of being bitter about Catholicism as many doctrinaire atheists are, I've learned to appreciate it more as I've grown older while still not believing the mumbojumbo.

Our son attends the excellent public elementary school where my wife teaches and attends CCD (Catholic Sunday School) in the meantime. In 6th grade he will go to a Catholic school instead of the pits of public middle schools. Basically I am intentionally being a hypocrite. He may end up with a faith that helps sustain him in difficult times in his life, and if he veers away from it as I did, I am there to help. But I like the framework of moral reasoning it gives him if that makes any sense. Even without "God" at the core I think it is some useful "scaffolding" for his development if you will. I think my tak eis similar to a lot of Jews who are not paricularly devout (or even believing) yet who maintain the core of their traditions and pass them on.

Posted by: Lexington Green on February 3, 2007 11:26 PM

Prayer is so universal that is accurate to call it natural for humans, though I usually balk at the word "natural". But I think it is fair to use ithere. And this nearly universal tendency comes out in intense moments even for people who profess based on their reasononing or upbringing or inclination not to believe there is anyone to pray to.

Apparently it is hardwired.

Is this because God is real?

I say yes to that and try to pray and act accordingly.

Might it be brain chemistry or something else other than that? Many say yes to this, and believe it to mean that the "God is real" premise is thereby rebutted. I say, I don't know about the brain chemistry question, but I would not consider it a rebuttal. No amount of peer-reviewed journal articles about brain chemistry and prayer would make me not pray.

The kind of experience you describe seems to happen to a lot of people. To some extent it happens to people who already believe in God and even to those who habitually pray. You do so more fervently at times of intense hardship or happiness or crisis. It also seems to occur more frequently in older rather than younger people, generally, but I am less certain about that.

Praying is a little bit like turning on a radio. You can have that radio on the shelf all your life and say, "I don't believe there is anything broadcasting anything, so why turn it on." One way to find out may be to turn it on and see. I have said this to several people, but it never seems to encourage them to actually pray more. I do not understand the process that leads people to develop faith. It seems almost random, to the point that the actions of the Holy Spirit seem a better explanation than any merely human explanation.

I will pray for you and Finnegan.

You might want to take a look some time at "Mystical Experiences of the Labor Camps" by Mihajlo Mihajlov in his book Underground Notes.


Posted by: Ryan on February 4, 2007 1:40 AM

No amount of peer-reviewed journal articles about brain chemistry and prayer would make me not pray.

I'm not sure if much good scientific evidence actually exists in this regard, one way or another. A lack of overarching understanding of how the brain actually works seems horribly lacking, in fact. It seems a lot of the research is 'looking for your keys under the lamppost, not because you lost them there but because that's where the light is.' Anyone who tells you that you pray because of how your brain is set up is not discussing anything that has a solid mechanistic basis in modern neuroscience, so far as I know. I'd welcome anyone who can prove me wrong here.

Of course, while I believe in God I don't think our emotional reactions always make for trustworthy evidence, either. Our intuitive understanding of things can actually impede progress when reality is counterintuitive. Heavy objects don't fall faster than lighter ones, absent wind resistance. The earth is not really the center of the universe. It was difficult for people to reject these notions and adopt a more accurate model, since the truth was fundamentally alien to their experience.

Maybe we're inherantly set up to deal with things in the universe like they're people. That includes God, even though the bible explicitly says "my thoughts are not your thoughts." God is not a 'father', but we treat him that way because that's one model we have for interacting with someone we have a strong, innate relationship to. At times this makes us do illogical things. Inanimate objects hurt us and we break or throw or hate them. We yell at the TV, even when the people on it can't hear us. We stand at the race track and say "C'mon number 5!" None of these actions are really rational, either. When we're emotional, we react on a more basic level and we seem to treat things as people, even when they aren't.

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