June 4, 2007
From the desk of Jane Galt:Jim Henley thinks America isn't ready for a trophy wife as first lady. Let me say that, despite his charms on Law & Order, I think Fred Thompson is a long shot for other reasons. (Which is why you should probably buy his contract right now on tradesports). But I'm not sure how much the younger wife thing hurts him. Grover Cleveland did something genuinely creepy: courted his dead partner's daughter, whom he had bought her first baby carriage, and of whose financial affairs he was guardian. This started when she was a freshman in college; he married her as soon as she graduated. Despite 27 years age difference, America ate it up.
Of course, things have changed a lot since then; but it's hard to argue that we've gotten more conservative about sex and marriage.
Posted by Jane Galt at June 4, 2007 8:06 AM | TrackBack | Technorati inbound linksI just don't know if America is ready to vote for a Republican actor on his second marriage.
That's odd, since about half of the country also voted for a Democratic "trophy husband" who ran for President the last time around.
Actually, I'd say we've become much more liberal about sex, but we have also become much more conservative about marriage.
"First Lady": unmentioned in the Constitution. Grow up, America!
Grover Cleveland was also well known to have fathered an illegitimate child (I assume while waiting for that child bride to grow up). OTOH, he freely provided support for that child, and his opponent (Blaine) had his own troubles taking the moral high ground. Allegedly, Blaine's father-in-law had held a shotgun on Blaine when Blaine was married.
Americans didn't watch quite as much television or listen to talk radio back in Grover's day, what with them not being invented yet.
Newspapers were even at a low point for affecting public opinion nationally. The nation had spread out from its large east-coast population centers, but syndication had not really started. The national magazines were very niche-oriented. It wasn't until Hearst that you could get press driven public opinion on a national scale.
Speaking of tics, I'm always a bit perplexed when I see the "hard to argue" phrase. Some people seem to use it to mean, "it's hard to put forth the position that . . .," while others seem to mean the opposite: "it's hard to disagree that . . . ."
This won't be an issue. It'd essentially be sex scandal where one is accused of having sex with their own wife.
If they were dating, and not married, it'd be tabloid fodder, but that's not the case.
Speaking of tics, I'm always a bit perplexed when I see the "hard to argue" phrase. Some people seem to use it to mean, "it's hard to put forth the position that...," while others seem to mean the opposite: "it's hard to disagree that...."
I fail to see the difficulty. Whether "it's hard to argue" for, or against, the position about to be disclosed is normally made clear within that disclosure.
It depends on the woman. If she appears warm, witty, appraochable, and classy, then she will be an asset. If she has the warmth of a dead fish, then it doesn't matter what her age is. (I'm looking at you, Theresa Heinz Kerry!)
Consider the differences in attitude if 50 year old Candidate A was married to Jessica Biel vs. Jessica Simpson, two smoking hot women who would (for the sake of this exercise) be considered trophy wives. With the one, you're thinking, "Yeah, that's possible..." With the other, you're thinking, "I know why he married her." Or even, "I know why she married him."
Jeri (aka Mrs. Fred) was a staffer who has a reputation of being smart, they've been married for some time and have children.
She might bother some people, but at this time I don't see her being a net negative.
I think it's funny that people are grasping at straws such as this one to try and find additional chinks in Fred's armor. Can't they find anything else to criticize him on, or are they concerned that any other charges they make won't resonate with the public as much as they hope this one would?
I also think it's very weird that Henley would base his post on a post that was so poorly researched -- an unfounded, emotional response to a photo. The original post suggests that Thompson dumped his wife for a trophy bride, then had to retract because Thompson was single for 17 years after his divorce, and his wife is 40 years old, not in her 20s. Are opponents going to start criticizing Republican politician's wives for looking prettier and younger than they expect? Because that's what this all boils down to, and it's ridiculous.
This is a total non-issue. Now if there was a female candidate with a husband 20+ years younger, then it would the primary issue of the race!
Christina: don't put ideas into Hillary's head; it just might work in her case!
Jane Galt:
"... hard to argue that we've gotten more conservative about sex and marriage. ..."
Not in general, but between old men and young women definitely.
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Do you know how ridiculous these people sound?
"Fred Thompson can't be elected, because people will think his wife is a gold-digger for marrying a guy whose first marriage broke up after 26 years and who waited 17 years to re-marry."
Is that all you got? Because if so, I'm looking for a President Thompson.
No, I'm not a Thompson partisan...I have not decided who or even which party I like this year. I doubt I'll pay much attention until the field is down to 3-4 on each side.
Do you know how ridiculous these people sound?
"Fred Thompson can't be elected, because people will think his wife is a gold-digger for marrying a guy whose first marriage broke up after 26 years and who waited 17 years to re-marry."
Is that all you got? Because if so, I'm looking for a President Thompson.
No, I'm not a Thompson partisan...I have not decided who or even which party I like this year. I doubt I'll pay much attention until the field is down to 3-4 on each side.
I just don't know if America is ready to vote for a Republican actor on his second marriage.
Posted by: thoreau on June 4, 2007 8:18 AM
We loved and voted for Reagan and that is the limited definition of Reagan
I had to go to the Grover Cleveland link before I realized that you meant 'partner' as 'business partner' and not 'other half of a romantic couple'. The latter definition is the standard usage here in England here for any romantic couple, whether gay, straight, married, engaged, living together, etc.
Thompson isn't the only candidate with a trophy wife. Dennis Kucinich's wife (no. 3) is more than 30 years younger than he is.
She also towers over Kucinich, which admittedly is not a particularly difficult achievement.
You know, I would vote for Fred Thompson in a heartbeat, even if he has married a box-turtle, if he could just make it a Federal crime to comment spam. Seriously, an FBI task force would be cool too.
Thompson has a whole bunch of other problems associated with him aside from the much younger wife to which I say, meh. If people don't seem to mind that Giuliani told his wife he was leaving her for another woman and wanted a divorce in a PRESS CONFERENCE then the much younger wife of Thompson would probably be pretty insignificant.
My issues with Thompson relate much more to his voting record, his close association with the utterly failed NeoCon policies, his stance on social issues (like the "A" word), the book he wrote after Watergate where he basically blamed John Dean for being a turn coat and then became a Republican apologist with the argument, "The Democrats Did It Too...They Just Didn't Get Caught..." which is hardly a strong argument, as well as what has been described as a "lazy" attitude.
Much of what I have heard has been unsubstantiated so I could be wrong, but the most recent news-worthy dialog (which I am paraphrasing because I am lazy too):
Reporter: Mr. Thompson, what would you do if you were elected president?
F.T.: Lots of stuff.
Reporter: Care to elaborate?
F.T.: No.
I understand about controlling the message and all, but that does seem lazy to me.
On the other hand…if he promises to eliminate comment spammers I could overlook all that.
I don't think Thompson will have any difficulties, given the length of the first marriage and the time between marriages. Thompson will get by on how effective he is in presenting his policies. One of Clinton's great strengths- like Reagan- was his ability to communicate ideas simply. If Thompson can match good policy with the ability to make it interesting to the average guy, then he is fine.
And...I have a new respect for Grover. It gives those of us who are rapidly getting old (but have failed to find a wife yet) heart warming reassurance that we will eventually be rewarded with the affections of smoking hot younger women (however calculated that affection might be).
On a more serious note, if Thompson wins he'd be the first cancer survivor elected President. Of course McCain and Giuliani also would qualify.
Do you know how ridiculous these people sound?
"Fred Thompson can't be elected, because people will think his wife is a gold-digger for marrying a guy whose first marriage broke up after 26 years and who waited 17 years to re-marry."
Is that all you got? Because if so, I'm looking for a President Thompson.
Yeah, that sounds about right to me. Calling her a "trophy wife" is a bit silly given the timeline in question. The stereotypical "trophy wife" scenario is: guy hits it big, dumps old wife, marries someone hot. Thompson and his wife divorced amicably, and did so before either his acting or political careers took off. He and his new wife married much later on.
I don't think most people are going to hold the marriage against him -- especially if his first wife is planning to campaign for him, which she supposedly is.
Do you know how ridiculous these people sound?"Fred Thompson can't be elected, because people will think his wife is a gold-digger for marrying a guy whose first marriage broke up after 26 years and who waited 17 years to re-marry."
Is that all you got? Because if so, I'm looking for a President Thompson.
It’s the opening salvo more than likely. That being said, while I agree that when you look at the facts (she was in her 40’s when they married and he’d been single for 17 years) it doesn’t quite (as in “not at all”) follow the “old guy leaves his wife for a gold digging hottie” narrative but that assumes accurate reporting from the DBM and a willingness of people to pay attention to the actual facts rather than just go on to the next story.
Sorry, but in this photo, the woman looks as
though she wouldn't meet dress code standards of
the DC Madam. It's the tremendous, pendulous
breasts as the not-very-attractive Thompson stupidly leers at the camera--I can just hear him
saying, "I shore got muhself a nice pair, din't I?" They just don't cut a very presidential couple kind of figure, don't cha know?
What picture are YOU looking at, H.M.?
- Jeri Thompson's breasts aren't especially large. She's a B or C cup, judging from the available photos.
- She's wearing a sensible white dress in that picture.
- Thompson's not even looking at the camera, let alone leering at it. He's smiling at his wife.
An enlarged version of the article photo is here.
Move over pig wives of Bush, Clinton, and all the others. This babe is hot!
I'd do the new first lady in a hot second!
Move over pig wives of Bush, Clinton, and all the others. This babe is hot!
I'd do the new first lady in a hot second!
I think you're missing the point; is America really ready to have a First Lady whose first name ends in an "i"?
That is a shocking photo, however. He looks like every pretty teenage girl's lech grandfather.
Watch those hands!!
In any case, Fred's got my vote.
I'm the one who wrote the post that Henley referred to and I'm surprised to see reaction seems to center around the term "trophy wife" along with the suggestion that I'm attacking the marriage or Jeri for being young and attractive.
I think I was very clear that I was reacting to the photo and not the marriage itself and I retracted the crack about robbing the cradle when I realized she was older than I initially thought. I thought she was in late 20s and in that shot she looked that young.
But I'm not conceding the point that she's a trophy wife and that's not a slur - it's a simple definition. Whatever the other circumstances are, if a new wife is more than 20 years younger than the husband, she's a trophy wife. For the record, that's how I would define Kucinich's new wife as well.
My point was and remains, that the Thompsons are visually an odd looking couple and in today's media heavy, soundbite driven campaigns, I think it's a possible factor. I was musing out loud about what effect it would have on Fred's candidacy.
I have found the response fascinating and thank you all for weighing in.
Christopher Dodd is another long-shot candidate with a trophy wife. I don't know how old his wife is, but there's almost certainly the 20+-year gap necessary to create a trophy wife situation (Dodd is 64, and has two children of preschool age).
Like Thompson, Dodd was divorced for many years before meeting his new, younger wife.
I, for one, welcome our non-dress code meeting, tremendous, pendulous, breasts-endowed overlords.
Libby, I have heard a different definition of "trophy wife." I've understood it to refer to a spouse who brings nothing obvious to a marriage besides T&A, and who marries the guy shortly after the old wife gets dumped.
In this case, Jeri clearly brings political connections and savvy (in addition to any personal characteristics strangers can't see), and there was a 17-year lag before she and Fred married.
Your 20-year yardstick works for a 23-year old marrying a 43-year old, but not so much with a 40-year old and a 60 year old...many 40-year olds have accomplished quite a bit.
The rule of thumb I've always heard for whether someone was too young to date was Half your age plus 7. So if you're 20, you should never date someone younger than 17. 30 the number would be 22. 40:27; 50:32; 60:37...you get the idea. Seams to me that Jeri Thompson is in the right age bracket.
"Dennis Kucinich's wife (no. 3) is more than 30 years younger than he is. "
Whether Kucinich's wife will prevent him from being elected is an untestable hypothesis.
So, has anyone else seen the flap over Joe Scarborough's comment about Jeri Thompson "riding the pole"?
It seems to me that this is a perfect opportunity for the Thompson campaign to nip the whole "trophy wife" meme in the bud.
Scarborough's remark was at the very least exceptionally rude. (Regardless of whether it has been taken out of context or not.) This gives Fred the chance to verbally slap a media guy upside the head, which most of us have wanted to do at one point or another--and something that Fred is apparently pretty good at-- and defend his wife at the same time.
Fred looks witty.*
Fred looks tough.
The trophy wife topic has been dealt with and becomes yesterday's news.
I think it is a win-win for Fred.
*I'm thinking something in the Law & Order-esque smartass vein. Like, "I don't have a pole, but I do have a shoe that I'm more than willing to stick up Joe's arse the next time he insults my wife."
I guess I'll be sticking around this thread for a while. I'm not even certain that the "lovely words" post is in English. Wow, that is so over my head.
Though I rarely post here, as an avid McArdlite I can't resist weighing in contrary to you, Megan, on Thompson's electability. Many Libertarians and nearly all Democrats are dismissive of him, but if he runs he will win handily. His positions on the issues will secure the right and his ability to articulate those positions in a persuasive manner will win over many independents and libertarians.
In fact, let me go out on a limb here and predict that his candidacy will make conservativism so attractive that the Republicans will regain the Senate.
Spencer's post referred to above says:
"Fred looks old and Jeri looks younger than her years and yes, very hot. Worse yet she flaunts it.'
"Worse...."! "...she flaunts it"???
Where? How? Appears Ms. Spencer's ire is merely colored green.
I'm the one who wrote the post that Henley referred to and I'm surprised to see reaction seems to center around the term "trophy wife" along with the suggestion that I'm attacking the marriage or Jeri for being young and attractive.
Probably because that’s exactly what you did.
So, has anyone else seen the flap over Joe Scarborough's comment about Jeri Thompson "riding the pole"?
I had never even heard of Joe Scarborough (and was surprised to learn he had been in Congress) until someone posted a link to his comment. Rule of thumb: if the first time you hear of a person is when they’re making a disparaging remark about someone more accomplished than they are, it’s usually a good sign that they don’t have anything to say that’s worth listening to.
So, has anyone else seen the flap over Joe Scarborough's comment about Jeri Thompson "riding the pole"?
I had never even heard of Joe Scarborough (and was surprised to learn he had been in Congress) until someone posted a link to his comment. Rule of thumb: if the first time you hear of a person is when they’re making a disparaging remark about someone more accomplished than they are, it’s usually a good sign that they don’t have anything to say that’s worth listening to.
Americans didn't watch quite as much television or listen to talk radio back in Grover's day, what with them not being invented yet.
Campaigning wasn't as primitive as you imagine. The Republicans made great hay from Grover Cleveland's, um, indiscretion. They even came up with a campaign slogan which gained national notoriety.
"Ma, ma, where's my pa. Sittin' in the White House, ha, ha, ha."
Luckily for Cleveland, the Republican candidate, James Blaine, while a model family man, had more than a couple accusations of using political office for political gain. Cleveland narrowly won and this was in 1884.
I shouldn't think that 123 years later, a young wife would derail Thompson's campaign.
Um, make that "accusations of using political office for "personal" gain.
Craig: Blaine also made an unfortunate misstep when a supporter referred to the Democrats as the party of "Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion." Blaine failed to distance himself from the remark fast enough. Nothing like alienating Catholic voters and Southern voters, all in one go.
Proving that self destruction is not a new imulse among Republicans.
"This gives Fred the chance to verbally slap a media guy upside the head,"
It almost makes me long for the days when Andrew Jackson could call a media guy out and shoot him dead in a duel. Most Americans of the 1820's seemed to think this was a properly proportionate response to what this newspaperman published about Mrs. Jackson.
The public won't elect a republican president period in 08.
"The public won't elect a republican president period in 08. "-Posted by Bockwinkle
Now, now, there's always the chance that the Democratic nominee will sodomize a bald eagle, live, on Monday Night Football. Oops, MNF is on ESPN now. Republicans don't have a chance after all.
The public won't elect a republican president period in 08.
Of course not, certainly not after the new Democratic congress road in a white horse and cleaned up the place exactly the way they said they would.
*cough*
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