Asymmetrical Information

In other news...

- Every random guy in a bar is either a lawyer, doctor or investment banker

- Everybody just knew that the Cleveland Cavaliers were going to make the finals

- Of course I wasn't dumb enough to buy a house last year, wasn't it obvious there was a housing bubble

Something that amuses me about a lot of the comments on the miracle of Cuban health care has to do with the emphasis on preventative care. Do people realize power of the state in Cuba to compel this preventative care?

If we started to ask the local cops to write a ticket to everyone eating a triple-scoop ice cream cone or super nachos, I'm guessing that we could cut down on obesity, too.

totalitarian states control information that gets out? Shocked, I am shocked I tell you! Interesting that you can see everything anyone in power does in your own country as a conspiracy, and assume that everyone in any other country must be telling the truth. This isn't just limited to Cuba or any other opaque country. The same could be said of, say, Denmark. "Denmark's health service is the best anywhere, and it's money saving too!" 'well, they have this taxation thing...' "I don't care! it's the best." Perhaps it is the best, but that doesn't mean it would work here, our population is 60X bigger. Or that people would be willing to start in a minimum tax bracket of 38%, etc...

The grass is always greener over the septic tank...

Jane,

Do you mean, to the right of Noam Chomsky? 'cause just how many people can be to his left?

lannychiu:

Last year was a fine time to buy a house, and I'm glad I did. Location, location, ...

"I just think I'm surprised that so many people seem to take things like Cuban infant mortality statistics at face value, or believe that anything definitive can be said about Cuban health systems, other than that we really don't know what we don't know."

Are you really surprised? Or is this just stated for effect? Because if you are really surprised, then you are more naive that I thought.

Some people believe in Cuba the way Evangelical Christians do in Jesus. It's strictly faith.

Nick Eberstadt had exposed the obvious flaws in Cuba's demographic statistics way back in the 70s. After the demise of the Soviet Union, Cuba stopped reporting some statistical series for a few years. Presumably because things had deteriorated with the disappearance of Soviet subsidies.

Do we know if Westerners (or Northerners?) get preferential treatment, so they can go back home and say how "great" the Cuban health care system is? Do we know if ordinary Cubans waiting for their turn get bumped in favor of foreigners from free market countries?

I'm not sure why anyone not on the left believes that everyone on the left shares a common belief about anything.

but since "some people believe" is now so hackneyed i guess that "everyone on the left is so sure ..." is the new Gingrich-approved intro to some outrageous claim.

Good one, Cuba's HC System is a joke. Also, the high quality surgeons in Cuba are used for wealthy patients around the world who I'm sure get a nice discount off US Surgeons' prices, but still pay good bucks to Cuba, the highly trained servants get a few bucks a day or something and are virtual slaves.

Check out some great photos of Cuba's wonderful hospitals and medical centers.
http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

absurd thought -
God of the Universe thought
Castro was good killer

left-wing moonbat sycophants
ignore brutal mass-murders
.

Sadly, we DO have some idea what the Cuban healthcare system looks like, because in 2005 a Venezuelan newspaper managed to obtain and publish a sequence of pictures from one of Cuba's major clinics. Seems if you're on the inside, your miraculous state-funded healthcare tends to look more like this:

http://www.gentiuno.com/articulo.asp?articulo=2167

The really funny thing is to toss this article at any hardcore lefty who is extolling the merits of Fidel's state healthcare (and if the hard-lefty in question is really thick, point out that in contrast to this, Fidel is personally worth >$250 million). Instead of getting "Huh, I never knew that, before" in response, the usual reaction is something akin to revealing Rumplestiltskin's name.

Funny thing is, if you've ever toured or seen indoor photos of present-day Alcatraz, it tends to look similar, except the wiring is safer and the insect count is lower.

Apropos of nothing, I suppose, but recently the local public radio station did a story about people going overseas for certain operations. Apparently you can get good quality heart surgery in Thailand and India for a fraction of the cost stateside.

http://www.kcfr.org/cgi-bin/comatters/comatters_play.m3u?play=3173&type=comatters.m3u
">Here's a link to the audio

As ridiculous as it is for some in the US to speak admiringly of Cuba, the real tragedy is that Chavez seems to want to use it as a role model for Venezuela. One of the most important lessons of the 20th century was what an incredibly, truly bad system communism is, in pretty much every way, and yet Venezuela may be taking the plunge.

Cuba's infant mortality rate is low because, despite a general lack of food on the island since sanctions, the communist government has, in a totalitarian manner, directed food to pregnant women and children. Meanwhile, most men are thin and many elderly men show symptoms of starvation, such as blindness. Castro himself looks skinny these days.

All of their maternity hospitals (about 60?) are certified Baby Friendly by the WHO, which means they promote breastfeeding effectively. Last I heard, maybe 20 American hospitals had qualified. Cuba has a very high rate of breastfeeding, continuing for the first year, which also improves their mortality/morbidity stats. Again, they're doing it because they can't afford formula.

My 30-something cousin from Cuba, in the US for three years now, has good things to say about Cuban doctors. The problem is that they don't have the basic medical supplies to perform their duties correctly unless you have the money to buy supplies yourself on the black market. She tells a story about going to get an X-ray and being told that there's a six-month wait for the film. She got the X-ray the next day after the doctor sold her the film at quite a markup.

If you're discussing Cuban doctors, there's really no reason to believe that they aren't well-trained professionals. If you're talking about the Cuban healthcare system, it's a disaster. Most admirers of the system (who, BTW, just happen to live outside of Cuba) will typically blame the lack of supplies on the US embargo forgetting that every other country in the world trades with Cuba. Somehow we have a monopoly on everything Cuba lacks.

One of the most important lessons of the 20th century was what an incredibly, truly bad system communism is, in pretty much every way, and yet Venezuela may be taking the plunge.

It's not as bad a system if you are the one in charge, which is the main reason "Venezuela" (pronounced "Chavez") is adopting it.

I for one would gladly submit to life as a political prisoner in order to get free Cuban healthcare. Most Americans feel the same way.

An article that discusses Cuban healthcare for Cubans, as opposed to that for tourists, among other things.

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=9636

One should seriously question any information coming from a one-party state with no free press.
And question anyone who parrots such information.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this...around Christmas 2006, Castro flew a SPANISH doctor in to see him. I can think of no greater indictment of the Cuban medical system..the most powerful man in Cuba could find NO DOCTOR IN ALL OF CUBA he trusted?

Can anyone imagine an American president flying in a doctor from Canada or the UK?

Last Christmas, Castro flew a Spanish doctor in to care for him?

How bad does a country's healthcare have to be before the countries leader can't find anyone he trusts to care for him?

Can anyone imagine an American president flying a Canadian or British doc in?

Last Christmas, Castro flew a Spanish doctor in to care for him?

How bad does a country's healthcare have to be before the countries leader can't find anyone he trusts to care for him?

Can anyone imagine an American president flying a Canadian or British doc in?

Last Christmas, Castro flew a Spanish doctor in to care for him?

How bad does a country's healthcare have to be before the countries leader can't find anyone he trusts to care for him?

Can anyone imagine an American president flying a Canadian or British doc in?

Last Christmas, Castro flew a Spanish doctor in to care for him?

How bad does a country's healthcare have to be before the countries leader can't find anyone he trusts to care for him?

Can anyone imagine an American president flying a Canadian or British doc in?

Sorry for the comment spam...the comments feature does not seem to update.

Sorry for the comment spam...the comments feature does not seem to update.

Apropos of nothing, I suppose, but recently the local public radio station did a story about people going overseas for certain operations.

This claim has always struck me as the globalizer counterpart to leftist fantasies about Cuban healthcare. Maybe your link is different (I'm not listening through an audio file to find out), but I've only seen stories on it mention one or two anecdotal cases followed by handwaving about how popular it's becoming. Has anyone of your acquaintance ever gone to Thailand or India for surgery?

I can, however, believe that it's a very attractive option for wealthy Malaysians, Bangladeshis, Burmese, Egyptians...

It's hard to be unfair to Castro, but I could conceive of a situation where an American President (more likely ex-President) had something exotic enough that the leading specialist was French or Japanese, and bringing in Dr. Pierre Nashimoto.

Yeah, I've always wondered how anybody could take Cuban statistics at face value. Even assuming that the top officials are being absolutely truthful when they send on the stats, the numbers are still likely lies. Don't these people remember, for example, how the production numbers reported to the Soviet Politburo were totally phony, lies made up by people lower in the hierarchy?

I do not know anything about Cuba's health care system, but judging by the smell of its back streets, I do not think much of its sewer system.

Perhaps the hospitals are better.

Perhaps.

I could conceive of a situation where an American President (more likely ex-President) had something exotic enough that the leading specialist was French or Japanese, and bringing in Dr. Pierre Nashimoto.

That's pretty hard to imagine. There's no area of medicine in which America is lacking fantastic doctors -- we're a huge country that rewards talent with big piles of money.

Cuba's a tiny country, though, so even if its medical system was good it could very well lack good specialists. Indeed, if it was friendly with the USA it would probably lack a LOT of specialists, since it would be a simple matter to pop over to Florida for an operation.

There's no area of medicine in which America is lacking fantastic doctors -- we're a huge country that rewards talent with big piles of money.

First, there are some technologies or practices that simply aren't practiced in the US due to liability or regulatory concerns, or simple failure to adopt the (usually non-technology intensive) practice. Bacteriophage therapy comes to mind. I've had one friend who actually traveled to Soviet Georgia to be (successfully) treated after a number of American doctors failed to cure her antibiotic resistant infection. A small handful of people with, for instance, otherwise intreatable, multiple-antibiotic resistant diabetic ulcers have done the same.

Secondly, America may offer piles of money to doctors compared to the rest of the world, and thus be very good at importing talent. Plenty of Filipino doctors come to the US and work as nurses , at least till they can get their MDs here. However relative to other professions that require the tremendous drive, natural talent, sometimes long hours and enormous up front investment in money and time that doctors require, the medical profession isn't very lucrative any more. Managed care has managed to make medicine a lot less profitable for doctors. And if money really is a factor in who enters medicine we should see one or more of the following; a doctor shortage, an increase in reliance on imported doctors, increased outsourcing of medicine to India and the Philippines, or a push by the HMOs for the government to subsidize the medical industry to relieve the doctor shortage (and thus, indirectly, the HMOs)

Has anyone of your acquaintance ever gone to Thailand or India for surgery?

No, but a friend of mine lived in Thailand for two years and loved it. Of course, he didn't happen to need open heart surgery while he was there... He's now married to a Thai national and plans to go back.

As it happens, my wife is from China. I don't trust the PRC healthcare system per se, but I've had very good luck being treated by my mother-in-law, a doctor trained in China, for basic health issues. She did amazing things for my chronic back pain using a combination of Western and traditional Chinese medicine. OTOH, she's from Henan province, where a major HIV scandal happened a few years ago when they didn't properly screen blood transfusions.

"Henan province, where a major HIV scandal happened a few years ago when they didn't properly screen blood transfusions"

That's a bit of an understatement. They didn't attempt to screen blood transfusions at all, did they? That costs money. They didn't even use clean needles to take the blood from sellers, so most of the peasant farmers that sold their blood ended up with AIDs. It wasn't that China didn't have the 'technology' or training to know how to use clean needles, it's that the government is so corrupt and badly managed that no one cared.

No, but a friend of mine lived in Thailand for two years and loved it. Of course, he didn't happen to need open heart surgery while he was there...

I tagged along with some backpackers when they went to visit their friend in Burumgrad Hospital in Bangkok, and was very impressed with it. I'm not knocking the top-level medical care in either India or Thailand, just expressing skepticism about the notion that lots of Americans go there for surgery.

I knew someone who considered going to India to have some expensive dental work done. The work was not covered by his insurance plan. He was born in India, and had relatives there, and trusted their medical system. He calculated that it would be cheaper to get a round trip flight, take off from work, and get the work done over there than to get the work done here. He ultimately decided that the cost differential wasn't enough to outweigh the possibility of complications.

Ryan W., we already rely on imported doctors quite a bit. American doctors gravitate to the specialties that remain profitable and offer some semblance of quality of life. Less desirable fields, like family practice, often fill with foreign doctors who have to do a residency in the US in order to get a license to practice here.

I'd not push my child into medicine, though I probably wouldn't fight terribly hard against it. The greatest costs are personal, rather than financial; with a physician's income, a few hundred thousand dollars of debt is manageable, but there's no way to get your twenties back, nor the frequent nights on call. I'm not bitter about my choice; it's probably the best I could have made given that I was moving well beyond any realms my parents could imagine. But I'd not send anyone else into it until I knew they had taken a long, clear look at it.

Well, Cuba definitely beats Haiti as far as health systems are concerned.
Too bad it's communist instead of socialist. Socialist countries do much better on health care than communist countries.

Another example of American arrogance ... getting all philosophical and suspicious when presented with a system which delivers a lot better and more efficient than theirs.

How very typical.