June 24, 2007
From the desk of Jane Galt:A festival of bad design
So, it looks like I will need to buy a car, for reasons that will be revealed later. I have even selected the car I want, based on my very idiosyncratic needs. Now I want to select the year. (Don't tell my mother, but I am--gasp!--considering buying a new car.)
The last time I had to buy a car, way back in 1999, I went to Edmunds.com, found the book value and ratings for various models and years, and read about their reliability and comfort. They even, bless them, had information on the front leg room.
Now go and do the same thing on their current website. I dare you.
I'd be willing to kick in $15 or so to access the ratings, except that as far as I can tell, the problem isn't that previously free data is now behind the pay barrier; the problem seems to be that it isn't there at all. From their website, I can go to Autotrader to buy a used car, which is not very helpful since I already know how to type www.autotrader.com into my URL--in fact, I believe that's where I found the Green Hornet. I can find out what edmunds.com thinks women should drive. I can explore their incredibly slipshod reviews of new cars. But I can't find the damn book value of the car I want, which is the only thing I actually want to do.
This is what happens when the commercial team runs roughshod over editorial. The general rule about a website is that people have three or four things they might want to do when they go there. The rule of good design is to make those three or four things very prominent on an otherwise simple page, and let them go to it.
Commercial does not like that. Commercial wants to sell ads. And tie-ins. And sponsored links. They also tend to believe that if you don't throw every single possible link in front of the user all at once, the stupid readers won't view your pages. And if they have too much pull, you get a web page that drives readers away in disgust. The first rule of commercialising the web is, you can't sell stuff to people who just hit the "back" button.
Don't get me wrong: if commercial has too little pull, you get a web page that loses money and has to be shut down so they can afford to fire everyone. This is where a good UI guy is worth his weight in gold.
Posted by Jane Galt at June 24, 2007 6:16 PM | TrackBack | Technorati inbound linksAgree re site design :-)
Try Kelly Blue Book: http://www.kbb.com for your particluar issue.
When I hit the comment button it showed zero posts. I wasn't planning to brag fr!st, I was planning to suggest the Kelly Blue Book site.
hopefully you gave gm/ford a fair shot & didnt fall for the usual japanese models have a better quality line-well what im tryin to say is they aren't that better staistically speaking if at all - & please please dont get a kia or one of those cars designed to fund the nazi war machine even if they have done the cursory repentence deal & donated tojewsih charities - no Amnesty on this one!
While I appreciate your point, I've found Edmunds's "TMV" (true market value) estimates more much more reliable indicators of actual prices in my area than those found at Kelly Blue Book.
Oddly enough, I'm looking for a car, too, but there's no way I'm touching new. I guess it might make sense for someone who has the money and wants to let the dealer worry about maintenance for the next couple years, but I can drive over to my folks' place and borrow the garage for all of the routine stuff...and thereby avoid up to 40% Instant Depreciation.
For used, KBB, CarFax, and AutoTrader are your friends. CarFax requires $25 to do a full VIN check (or $30 for unlimited checks within a 30-day span) but is worth it, as the location of original sale and transfer of ownership/logged maintenance can reveal quite a bit about the vehicle's likely condition.
Good UI is key - usability is key, despite how anyone it can be some times!
As for cars: avoid american, too much "value engineering" and decontenting, though they have generally caught up in reliability.
Depending on what you need, a Civic could be a good bet, or a BMW 3-series. They are great used and last forever - but unfortunately their used value reflects that.
Good UI is key - usability is key, despite how anyone it can be some times!
As for cars: avoid american, too much "value engineering" and decontenting, though they have generally caught up in reliability.
Depending on what you need, a Civic could be a good bet, or a BMW 3-series. They are great used and last forever - but unfortunately their used value reflects that.
There are a few people who actually specialize in the design of web sites--it's usually called usability. See useit.com.
But it's not widely considered a discipline that you need to know about in order to make web sites for a living. In fact, I was looking for web developer training a while back, and found no company that offers both technical training and usability training! Kind of amazing. (shakehead)
Consider Cars.com for the overall stuffs on reliability and such, they use embedded J.D.Power rankings... plus the prices and options and such. You may also want to cross check Kelly with NADA, which is a similar website. I agree that edmunds went downhill. Since my elderly Acura Legend decided to let me know in advance it was going to strand me permanantly, I've used these sites a bunch in the last 2 months. Seriously how can you get a better used car than one that after 19 years and 190000 miles, lets you know in advance it is going to croak. How polite.
Anyway, you may want to consider rental fleet with manufaturer certification, as being nearly new, but with almost all of their depreciation scrubbed off... but then car needs are so very individual that as they say YMMV...
hmmm. Still I'd bet Prius would satisfy what I'd imagine was your needs... they are big inside, do well in fuels especially in cities, etc... and now that they have been around for a while, their prices are far more rational...
good luck, and do tell about why you are going to need such a thing. Is it exciting, is it crunchable? Is it a home in the country? Do tell...
D
DC has a much different atmosphere and the driving needs are more apparent than in good old NYC. It's pretty restrictive to try and live close to the train stations themselves, plus most of those places aren't very much phune to live near.
Good luck...try a Yaris, a Crossfire, or a SMARTY...the convertible.
Is this what you're looking for?
http://www.edmunds.com/products/tmv/index.html?id=lin1047
Heaven help you if you actually go straight to the automakers' websites looking for specific info or to download a brochure. US automakers in particular are more interested in acquiring a lead than in providing information (what, like it's going to be effective if a car salesman calls you during dinner?)
You might think it would be an effective way to spend marketing money to let the consumer get a brochure by just downloading it -- but I think some carmakers feel they have something to hide.
But most of them have awful design and information architecture issues, loads and loads of junky Flash animation -- that's what happens when the graphic designers and flash programmers run the asylum.
And not that this is any secret, but your Hondas and Toyotas do retain value very well, if you're thinking long term. Last time I was looking for a used car I spent a frustrating weekend trying to grab one of the Civics or Corollas being advertised in the paper. Everyone I called was like "Sorry, just sold it", "Sorry, that's no longer available". "Can I put you on hold a second .... Sorry, just now sold it".
I am a UI guy, who recently moved from NY and had to buy a car. I joined the consumer reports website, it was pretty good about information on the reliability of cars. I really don't trust edmonds or JD powers, they seem like shills. There is a wide difference between what they say and what cr says.
BTW, I purchased a white 2003 honda civic hybrid. It cost me $12000. My milage is consistantly 45-46mpg. Highly recommended!
That's certainly a junky design. I think you're looking for "Appraise your car," which sounds backwards but they do it both ways. Try http://www.edmunds.com/tmv/used/index.html and see if that's what you're looking for.
Seen Amazon.com's website lately? Sheesh!
I agree with Consumer Reports, though they too have been overrun by a marketing department staffed with amphetamine crazed nincompoops.
Go to the library and check out he latest Annual Car Report; I think it was published just a few months back. Has Relibility ratings on used cars.
Megan
You are on a hiding to nothing if you go for a Mini Cooper.
BMW has done a great job with the brand, but have you ever seen a BMW that didn't cost a fortune to fix?
And buying new is the worst mistake in history: any economist could tell you the 10-15% value drop that happens *when you drive it off the lot* is a real transfer of wealth from you to the manufacturer and the retailer. You've de facto maximised your cost.
How about a Honda Civic? They make some nice sporty models in the US, I believe. (do they sell the smaller one, the Honda Jazz?). Sadly they don't offer the diesels (50mpg, and the relative improvement in city traffic is even greater) in the US AFAIK.
Recommend you check Consumer Reports for reliability and brand recos.
Tough to beat Consumer Reports. You can buy their latest Used Car guide for just a few books at your local book store. Or get an online, annual subscription. They seem to offer the most systematic reviews. Also, they aren't afraid to write negative reviews. I have the impression that Edmunds and they like tend to generally be positive about most cars... which isn't all that helpful really.
I saw a Road & Track survey where a high number of people said that their Mini Coopers were unreliable, BUT they loved them anyway. I think that's a personality test. If you're willing to put up with trouble to get a really fun car, get a Mini. If you're not, and you want a city car, get a Honda Fit or a Civic.
Whit Stevens
Welcome to the land of the for-profit private sector.
Edmonds doesn't want to p-off the car companies. Even if they don't rely directly on advertising, the car companies can cut their access to models for review purposes, and all the other relationships the car cos build up with the auto mags (free trips, access to cars before launch etc.).
I can tell you an iron rule of being in any supply chain (which a car reviewer is), is 'don't p-off other links in the chain-- they can get you'.
Consumer Reports, being a not-for-profit with a 'mission', doesn't care. That's why it doesn't have any advertising-- it would compromise objectivity.
How you guarantee the creation of entities like CR, providing useful information to consumers and therefore creating economic efficiency (asymmetries of information create economic inefficiencies: hence the famous Akerlof paper on used cars 'The Market for Lemons') is an interesting question.
Consumer Reports on 2007 Mini:
Summary
The Mini hatchback is redesigned for 2007. The convertible continues unchanged for now. Both blend 1960s charm with modern levels of amenities and safety. Handling is very agile, with quick, precise steering and little body lean, making it truly fun to drive. The ride is still a bit choppy, but less so in the redesign. The base engines are now more refined and the turbocharged one in the Cooper S is very punchy. The rear seat is very tight. The simple-to-use convertible top incorporates a partial-open sunroof position. Reliability of the old design hatchback was average or better, but the convertible is below average. The redesign still has a few confusing controls.
Road Test
Highs: Acceleration, handling, braking, fun to drive, turning circle, character, sunroof, easy top operation.
Lows: Ride, noise, rear seat, trunk, rear visibility.
The Mini Cooper S convertible features a supercharged engine and a smooth six-speed manual. Extremely agile handling makes it enjoyable to drive. Operating the convertible top is as easy as pushing a button, and the top features a partial-open stage that acts as a large sunroof. The Mini has lively handling, but a choppy ride. The view through the small back window is obscured by the rear seats.
THE DRIVING EXPERIENCE
The Mini absorbs bumps tolerably but the ride is stiff and choppy, partly due to its run-flat tires. The throaty engine sound complements the sporty character of the car. The Mini displayed impressive agility and minimal body lean in corners. Its exceptionally quick steering is well-weighted and provides good feedback. The Mini was balanced and forgiving in corners at our track, and posted a very fast speed in our avoidance maneuver. A tight turning circle helps when parking. The supercharged 168-hp,1.6-liter four-cylinder engine delivered spirited performance and returned 25 mpg overall. However, it requires premium fuel. The six-speed manual transmission shifts accurately. Overall braking performance is excellent. The optional Xenon headlights provide excellent width, distance, and intensity, but there is a sharp cutoff with the low beams.
INSIDE THE CABIN
The cabin is stylish and well put together. Materials are well-finished, with a good mix of rubberized surfaces and high-quality plastics. All of our drivers, including the tall ones, found a comfortable seating position. The steering column adjusts for height but the column-mounted tachometer is partially concealed for many drivers. With the top up, the rear roof pillars create a large blind spot that makes parking and merging difficult. The front seats are firm and comfortable and provide good lateral and lumbar support. But rear leg room is virtually nonexistent. Shoulder room is tight. Front access is easy; rear access is difficult. The control layout can be confusing. The center-dash-mounted speedometer forces the driver to look away from the road. The tachometer houses a trip computer. Look-alike toggle switches sit low in the dash, but all are lighted at night. The power top works well and features a halfway open setting, a nice touch that acts as a large sunroof. The 50/50 rear-split seats fold to expand the minuscule trunk. Our vehicle came with run-flat tires, so there was no spare tire.
SAFETY NOTES
Side-impact air bags are standard in the Mini Cooper S convertible and supplement required front air bags and three-point seatbelts in all four seating positions. The front seatbelts are equipped with pretensioners and force limiters to reduce belt slack and forces in the event of a crash. Adjustable, locking head restraints in the front seats are tall enough even when fully lowered to adequately protect against whiplash. Rear head restraints integral to the rollbar are also tall enough. Daytime running lights can be programmed by the dealer. Driving with kids: The deep seat contour and seatbelts anchored forward of the seatback makes securing rear-facing seats difficult. Rear-facing infant seat bases also tend to tilt in the rear seats of the Mini. Though the LATCH system may prove more secure for rear-facing seats, the recline position may still require adjustment to counter the deep contour of the seat. Front-facing seats should prove secure. The LATCH anchors are easy to access in covered recesses in the seat cushion and there are tether strap anchor points on each of the rear seatbacks.
RELIABILITY
We expect reliability to be worse than average, according to our latest subscriber survey.
FYI, CR's Best in Class roadster is the Mazda Miata MX-5. Best in Class sporty car is the Subaru Impreza WRX. Best in Class luxury Sedan in Audi S4. Best in Class upscale sedan is Infiniti G35.
'. Last time I was looking for a used car I spent a frustrating weekend trying to grab one of the Civics or Corollas being advertised in the paper. Everyone I called was like "Sorry, just sold it",'
You're actually a little better off if you step up to a Camry or Accord. These are leased en masse for company fleets and occasionally show up in huge gluts on the used car markets. You can get them at 70% of blue book value when that happens. The same thing happens with the largest American cars (Caprice Classic, Grand Marquis, Le Sabre, Town Car, and some Cadillacs).
You have to be able to take 2-3 months to buy a car this way though, unless you get lucky. Generally, if you need it now, you're screwed.
We just bought a Honda Element and love it.
I am almost 6'4" and the headroom is great, and I fit nicely. I understand this is a consideration for you.
We are longtime confirmed used car buyers, but look at the resale value on a 3-4 year old Element and compare to new pricing. With 2.9% financing, it made sense to buy new.
Consider the 8 year/120K Honda Care program. Shop around for this one, as pricing ranged from $1485 to $2020 for the same thing. You can buy it from a different dealer than the one who sells you the car, but do it pretty soon thereafter.
Join Costco for their car buying program. Our purchase was made June 2 and we got it for $900 under invoice, which my car friends said was a good deal.
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