Asymmetrical Information

I used to have a Gateway, I don't miss the multiple lacerations I would get each time I worked inside the thing. That said, the computer was put together well and I had no problems with the computer itself (the OS is another story), so I can't fault Gateway on the construction, just the poor layout and case design.

You can't go wrong with the new Dells, slapped a new hard drive inside in 10 minutes, without a scratch on my hands.

If he (she?) is looking at it to do film editing and DVD mastering, they really would be better off with a dual-processor mac and Final Cut Pro and/or DVD Studio Pro.

If not, then it looks like overkill.

Jane -

I recently upgraded to a new PC myself; I was originally planning on building it myself, but found that ABS Computer could build me a system with the same level quality components I would use, for less money.

I've used the system for about four weeks now with no problems whatsoever; quite satisfied.

I have not had occasion to use their tech support yet (a good thing), but I'm not sure it is 24x7, so this may not be an ideal solution for your relative. But I'd at least recommend them as an option to consider for yourself.

ABS's home page is here; the links above show my posts on my buying process.

Megan:
A non-techie perspective: I ordered a new, top-of-the-line Gateway a year and a half ago, which came with a defective hard drive among other imperfections. People I spoke to at the time indicated that your impression of Gateway's reputation was still valid. Back it went, to be replaced by a relatively fault-free Dell.

I may sound like a scrooge saying this - but unless you really like acting as tech support for your relatives, I would refrain from offering any advice at all. You'll be amazed at how many trees will fall silently in the woods as a result.

Hey Meg...

I still owe you drinks and dinner for bagging out on you.

That being said, I agree with Frankenstein. Chris (you know, the guy I married) is a film editor and would be simply appalled if he thought that someone expected ease or quality with digital editing on a PC. Mac with Final Cut Pro is definately the way to go.

I, on the other hand, have a Dell Laptop and have been almost 100% pleased with the service I recieved (three years and they come to me to fix it within 24 hours). I say almost because there was the time my Modem died and when I called Dell to replace it they informed me they were "back-ordered" on the internal modem. There was nothing in my contract that said that I would get service on my machine unless they were back-ordered, so I spent about 6 hours on the phone explaining this to them. Finally I spoke to the legal department. Needless to say, my computer was fixed the next day and Dell subsequently changed their service contract to exclude back-ordered parts.

Friends who have purchased Gateways have had problems, from the 24 hour service to the computer arriving broken. My friend Caryn purchased a new Gateway about a year ago and had to ship it back to them to fix it. I think they finally just gave her a new one, it was so screwed up. And the new one still crashes if it starts to run a program it does not like.

I'd say go with the Dell, unless the real interest is editing, then I would say go for the Mac. That's what the Mac is designed for anyway, and if your cousin is a non-technical person anyway, s/he'll probably like it better (service is great on them, by the way). That's my non-technical (and free) advice.

I still recommend an inexpensive Apple IMAC for those with mundane needs. We purchased a brand new, phased out model, some six months ago. No problems whatsoever. You may be right to suspect that Apple is doomed in the long run, but for the next few years--I can't think of a better computer for the hoi polloi.

In the long run, we're all dead.
iMacs (or eMacs or iBooks or PowerBooks or PowerMacs) all do DV-based video editing out of the box, really well.
Apple provides 24/7 customer service, including walk-in support at Apple stores. If your relative is near an Apple store, they have regular demonstration of editing solutions.
If you want a turnkey system at a the higher end, I'd suggest a reseller like Promax who have lots of experience building video systems for both Mac and Windows, and can provide specific packages.
You don't want to end up helping your relative to troubleshoot this stuff, and getting a Mac is a good way to outsource that.

Is your relative interested in saving $2000? If so, you can DIY with parts from Newegg.com -- rated 9.76/10.00 at Resellerratings.com. You can read about NForce2 motherboards and Athlon XP processors at Tomshardware.com or Anandtech.com. Even a cheap FongKai case has rolled edges to prevent hand lacerations. VARs, including Dell, sometimes bundle poor quality monitors with their PCs unless you specify that you want a particular highly-rated brand-name monitor. A few days ago, I built a sub-$1000 low-usage stand-alone Windows 2000 server using an Asus A7N266-VM NForce IGP motherboard and an Athlon 2100 XP CPU.

Gateway® 700XL
Feature-rich, the 700 Series offers cutting-edge performance with all the latest technology.

We recommend adding more memory and a worry-free warranty. (Don't need them? Remove when customizing your order.)

$3499 Base Price
+$139 3 Yr. Warranty (Recommended)
+$400 Memory Upgrade (Recommended)

$4038

Total

As low as $112.18/month¹
Shipping and handling extra
No interest/payments 'til June 2003
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Processor
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 3.06GHz w/ Hyper-Threading Technology

Memory
1024MB RDRAM® PC1066 (4-256MB Modules)

Storage
200GB UATA100 7200RPM Hard Drive w/ 8MB Performance Enhancing Cache
Additional 200GB 7200RPM Ultra ATA hard drive w/ 8MB Performance Enhancing Cache

Media Drives
3.5" 1.44MB diskette drive
DVD-R/-RW/CD-RW Recorder and 48x/24x/48x CD-RW

Graphics & Monitor
19" flat panel LCD (19" viewable)
128MB ATI Radeon 9700G PRO AGP Graphics Accelerator with TV Out and DVI

Audio & Speakers
SoundBlaster Audigy Audio w/ IEEE 1394 (FireWire)
Boston Acoustics® BA7900 5.1 Speakers

Promotions
Free TurboTax Deluxe coupon (redeemable at a Gateway Store near you!)

Modem
56K PCI Voice Modem2
Want a free cable modem?

Network Adapter
10/100/1000 Ethernet (Gigabit)

Keyboard & Mouse
Logitech Wireless Keyboard and Wireless Optical Mouse

Internet Service Provider
One year America Online® Internet access
(additional phone charges may apply) more info

Limited Warranty
3 Year Limited Parts/Labor/In-home Service/Lifetime Technical Support3

Operating System
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Free upgrade offer

Application Software
Microsoft® Office XP Small Business and Quicken New User Edition

Promotional Software
Movie Creator VCD/DVD (Limited Time ONLY) more info
The Sims™ (Limited Time Promotion - a $49.95 value)4
Gateway Music Vault

AntiVirus Software
Norton AntiVirus 90 day Introductory Offer5

From NEWEGG.COM -- just add speakers, 80mm case fans, an inexpensive UPS (e.g. Belkin), antivirus, and productivity software to the below:

Qty Product Item # Unit Price Qty x Price

Cables
36-Inch. IDE ATA 100/66, Flat Cable for IDE Hard Drive, CD ROM, DVD ROM or CDRW, 3-Connector, 36 Inches Long $3.00

Cases (Computer Cases, ATX Form)
Fong Kai Mid Tower ATX Chasis Model FK-668B with 300W Enhance Power Supply - OEM Front USB, 1394 & Audio - Optional. Rolled metal edges, seamed exposed edges. P4 Ready (428 or 478). Tooless Side Access. .6mm Thick Metal Construction. Four 5.25" Drive bays, and five 3.5" bays. Total of 9 drive bays. Side vents. more info>
N82E16811120005 $40.00

CD/DVD Burners (RW Drives)
AOPEN CDRW 48x12x50 CD-Recordable Drive.Retail Specifications:
Interface: E-IDE/ATAPI
ATA-33(33MB/sec)/ DMA (16.7MB/sec)
PIO Mode-2 (16.7 MB/sec)
Data Buffer Memory: 2MB
Data Transfer Rate:
Write CD-R: 4X,8X,12X,16X, 20X, 24X, 32X, 40X, 48X
Write CD-RW: 4X,8X,10X,12X
Read: Up to 50X (1X=150KB/s)
Comes bundled with NERO software, Cd-audio Cable, screws and manual. more info>
N82E16827106517 $49.00

CD/DVD ROM Drives
TOSHIBA 16X DVD-ROM Model SD-M1712 OEM DRIVE ONLY
Specifications:
Interface: EIDE ATAPI
Average Random Access 95ms (DVD-ROM)170ms (DVD-RAM) 85ms (CD 48X)
Burst Data Transfer Rate 16.7MB/s (PIO Mode 4 & Multiple Word DMA) 33.3MB/s (Ultra DMA)
MTBF: 100,000 hours
Spin Up Time: 1.5s (DVD, DVD-RAM /)1.9s (DVD-RAM / )1.4s (CD)
Buffer Cache Size: 192KByte
OEM (DRIVE ONLY) more info>
N82E16827130017 $40.00

Floppy Drives
Teac 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Floppy Drive # FD235HFC291 - OEM Version
Specifications:
1.44MB 3.5" Floppy Drive
Automatic Media Detection
Reliable Rugged Die-Cast Frame
Simple Plug & Play Installation
Install the floppy drive into an available drive bay.
Connect the drive to the controller with the interface cable.
Run set-up. Now your ready to get started.
OEM DRIVE ONLY 1year warranty more info>
N82E16821103118 $9.00

Hard Drives
WD WESTERN DIGITAL 200GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # WD2000JB - OEM, DRIVE ONLY
Specifications:
Size: 200 Gigabytes
Interface: IDE ULTRA ATA100
read Seek time: 8.9 ms
write Seek time: 10.9 ms
RPM:7200
Cache 8MB
OEM(Drive alone) 3 Year Manufacturer Warranty more info>
N82E16822144129 $256.00

Keyboards
Logitech Cordless Navigator Duo (Keyboard & Mouse) - RETAIL
Features:
Eliminate the clutter with cordless freedom
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Use the maintenance-free cordless optical mouse on almost any surface
Get twice the speed and twice the accuracy of standard optical mice
Make scrolling easier with the mouse's convenient scroll wheel
Use the mouse in either hand thanks to a sleek, comfortable shape --* Works With PC & Mac *-- more info>
N82E16823126117 $65.00

Memory (System Memory)
SimpleTech (Simple Technologies) 512MB DDR PC2700 Major Brand Chip - OEM
Retail 64x64. 184-pin. Non-parity, Gold Contacts, 6 Layer PCB, CL=2.5, 2.5Volt, PC2700=DDR333, Lifetime Warranty. Part# RB2700DDR/512 more info>
N82E16820150316 $85.00 x 2 = $170.00

Monitors - LCD Flat Panel
Sony monitor 19" LCD SDM-S91/B - Retail
19" viewable size, Native (optimal) and maximum resolution 1280 x 1024
Pixel pitch: 0.294 mm, Brightness (luminance) 250 nits (cd/m2)
Contrast ratio 600:1, Viewing angles 170/170 (degrees horizontal/vertical)
Response time Rise 15ms, Fall 10ms
Dead Pixels Policy: Replacement or Refund for 8 or more DEAD PIXELS ONLY!
[Mac use may require adapter, not included]
--* Works With PC & Mac *-- more info>
N82E16824006033 $754.00

Motherboards - AMD
MSI Motherboard for AMD Athlon/AthlonXP/Duron processors , Model# K7N2G-L(MS-6570g-010) Retail
Specifications:
CPU Supported: AMD Athlon/AthlonXP/Duron processors (@ 100/133/166 FSB)
Chipset: nForce2 IGP, MCP2
FSB: 100/133/166(200/266/333)MHz
RAM: 3x 184-pin DDR DIMMs (PC3200/2700/2100/1600 DDR SDRAMs), supports both 64-bit and 128-bit DDR SDRAM
IDE: 2x channels, support Bus Master and Ultra DMA133/100/66 operating modes
Slots:1xAGP (4x8x) 5x PCI and 1x ACR
Ports:1xCOM,1xVGA,1xLPT,6xUSB,1xLAN,and Audio Ports
Onboard Audio:Realtek ALC650 6-channel audio
Onboard LAN: Chipset integrated 10/100 Base-T Ethernet more info>
N82E16813130397 $115.00

Processors
AMD ATHLON XP 2700 /333 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - RETAIL
Specifications:
CPU: 2.17 GHz
Type: XP 2700 + Thoroughbred
Cache: 256K
BUS: 333MHz
Socket: A Retail (Box with Heatsink and Fan) more info>
N82E16819103342 $342.00

Software - OS
**This item is NOT REFUNDABLE, exchange for same exact item only!!**
►On Sale! Microsoft Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 1 - OEM Full Version Designed for reliability, security and privacy, high performance, and ease of use, the Windows XP operating system provides a host of benefits for business and home users. A clean and simple desktop, rock-solid reliability, and easy-to-use features that take advantage of the digital age all contribute to the value of Windows XP. *Must be Purchased with Hardware!!* more info>
N82E16837102015 $143.00

Subtotal » $1,986.00
Shipping and Handling Charge »
>How Newegg.com calculates shipping APO/FPO - Military ONLY FedEx Standard Overnight FedEx 2Day FedEx Express Saver Choose which State to ship AA AP AE ALASKA ALABAMA ARKANSAS ARIZONA CALIFORNIA COLORADO CONNECTICUT DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA DELAWARE FLORIDA GEORGIA HAWAII IOWA IDAHO ILLINOIS INDIANA KANSAS KENTUCKY LOUISIANA MASSACHUSETTS MARYLAND MAINE MICHIGAN MINNESOTA MISSOURI MISSISSIPPI MONTANA NORTH CAROLINA NORTH DAKOTA NEBRASKA NEW HAMPSHIRE NEW JERSEY NEW MEXICO NEVADA NEW YORK OHIO OKLAHOMA OREGON PENNSYLVANIA PUERTO RICO RHODE ISLAND SOUTH CAROLINA SOUTH DAKOTA TENNESSEE TEXAS UTAH VIRGINIA VERMONT WASHINGTON WISCONSIN WEST VIRGINIA WYOMING
Grand Total » $ 2,030.17

Kind of a waste-of-bandwidth there, M. Rackham; while it was nice of you to do all that legwork, a blow-by-blow copy/paste is a bit excessive IMHO. Usually "type/brand/cost" (and a grand total if you wish) is enough for a demonstration, and an interested party can then chase the further details down on their own.
----

Regarding Dell: The opinions on Dell quality/support I encounter while following the PC enthusiast community seem to vary. Some purchasers have glowingly positive experiences along the lines of those discussed by other posters in this thread. But others have been chased away from Dell by inefficient, poor-quality support services, so go figure...? Maybe it depends on where you live, i.e. if they happen to contract out some of their service coverage through third parties.

My school's computing center exclusively buys Gateways (~200 systems online I think), but I have no info on what their reliability record there is, or motivation for buying Gateway. The various academic departments mainly tend to buy Dells and an odd Gateway when going for a mainstream OEM, and either Dells or smaller off-brands when buying machines for labs and such.

*shrug*

I said --

The various academic departments mainly tend to buy Dells and an odd Gateway when going for a mainstream OEM, and either Dells or smaller off-brands when buying machines for labs and such.

-- and hereby apologize for the awkward prose. What I meant is when filling division needs, Dell and the occassional Gateway can be found; in labs, it's usually a Dell or smaller off-brand.

I find the hardware differences between Gateway and Dell to be negligiable. It has been my experience over the last ten years that Dell provides a superior grade of service for the end user. I recommend Dell for that reason.

Might be worth keeping in mind that Gateway is having severe financial issues as well, which will surely affect their staffing.

M. Rackham: The parts you toted up are at least one hard drive, one DVD recorder, one large LCD monitor, several FireWire ports, and video editing software short of the Gateway bundle. Some rather important parts if you intend to capture/edit/produce video.

Some notes:

Two hard drives are a good idea, although the "large" cache is mostly wasted for video work. I'd suggest one drive for OS/applications/paging/normal user data and one or more video drives.

Two large flat panel displays are rather expensive; the selected graphics card is also on the expensive side and overkill for video work. Matrox is generally considered to be the best in this area.

There are two camps when it comes to DVD writable, the DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD-RAM camp and the DVD+R/DVD+RW camp. There are some advantages and disadvantages and differing compatability for each camp, they should be aware of them. There's a user survey of DVD settop boxes and their compatability with the two camps at http://www.vcdhelp.com/.

Video editing software varies quite a bit--I don't see where they detail what's in "Digital Film Maker Bundle". Ah, found it, its basically Pinnacle's mid-range suite, which should be reasonable, but I'd really suggest that your relative give the different software a try first (demo versions of many are available) before committing to buying a $700 software package. A lot of people like Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video, and many like Ulead's MediaStudio Pro. Adobe Premiere is more multimedia than video, but still in competition. Also, Avid is releasing a free cut down version of their system in a few months (Avid is pretty much the leader in high end non-linear video editing.)

Overall, the components mentioned are pretty good, but quite a bit isn't described in any detail.

You might also consider that Gateway is as good as dead and it's only a question of when not if they go bankrupt. Hell, if they were a shareholder friendly company they would shut the thing down and return the balance sheet cash to the shareholders

On the Mac side, Apple just revised the iMac specs today, keeping the prices the same. Bigger discs, newer Graphics Chips & faster CPUs & DVD writers. I know I have a bias here, but a good friend of mine who works for Microsoft and is as techy as they come has spent the last six months trying to get a Windows-based video editing and DVD burning system working, wasting hours of his life in runaround between the different card-makers, PC vendor, software vendors and his own employer. He asked me a few days ago about which Mac to buy instead.

Jane/Megan,

Just before Christmas I bought the very same Gateway 700XL computer described by Mr. Rackham above.

It came with (A) a defective video card, (B) incompletely loaded operating system (Windows XP), (C) defective DVD reader, and (D) defective sound system (subwoofer/amplifier). Even the mouse didn't work.

Telephone service was pleasant but hopeless, since many of the defects were physical.

But after a little fussing with one pretty well completely alienated Gateway technical support representative, local Gateway replaced everything right away, had the local store test the replacement before it came to me and - at my suggestion - gave me a free memory upgrade for my trouble ($400 retail). So far, the repaired/replaced cpmputer is wonderful. [I also got a Microsoft wireless network to go with it, and that works, too. I get a steady 11Mbps here in the guest house office, where the homebase DSL gets 100 Mbps.]

The DVD burners work well. My home office has hardwood floors, insulated plasterboard walls, a rug and stuffed furniture, so even the sound system actually sounds pretty good.

But I haven't done any significant video editing yet. Sorry.

However, I do happen to be on pretty good terms with Gateway's largest institutional investor and with the analyst there who got them into the stock (which, by the way, is trading for less than cash-on-hand). If you like, I could arrange for him to chat with you about why he likes the company.

If you're interested, send me an e-mail and I'll contact him for you.

I just thought I'd mention that our computer at No-Lyfe Productions is a piecemail PC running Adobe Premier and handles massive amounts of full-frame editing quite well.

I don't know if I'd bet the farm on Gateway being around forever as a going concern.

That being said, I'm under the impression many computers ae actually built by contractors and third parties and a Dell or Gateway might be made by the same company, and different logos stuck on the front. (Could be wrong, but that's what I've been told).

I've been looking at laptops a lot lately. I must say Gateways seem to give you more stuff for the $$.

I was hanging out at my friendly neighborhood computer store. He had a load of $99 mo bo's w sound $ video throw in a case $30, 900Mhz Duron $45, etc. But I found some used IBM PC's 400Mz PII's w/ cd rom 6 g drives network cards agp video. $89. I bought 3 of em. They are built like tanks. 400 Mhz is plenty fast enough for uses other than gaming or serious graphics. Also they are very Quiet.

I had a gateway that ran without being turned off except to reboot from 1992-1997. Excellent computer, and I never had a problem with it. My next computer was a P.O.S. that I put together that lasted 1 year. Then I bought an IBM Aptiva, which while not the fastest or best, ran dependably and reliably with not one hiccup until a month ago, when I replaced it with a Dell. My office computers have always been Dells.

Guess I am just lucky- but then again- I don't do stupid things to my computers.

I've had the same Gateway (then Gateway 2000) at home since 1996. Then it was a Pentium Pro @200MHz, since upgraded with an Intel OverDrive chip to a Pentium II at 333MHz. Aside from an initial mix-up with the order (I was coming from the Mac world, and this was my first PC), I was very impressed with Gateway's 24/7 support during those early days with MS Windows 95.

I can't speak for their current price/performance or support, but back then they were very responsive and knowledgeable.

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