Asymmetrical Information

Actually he didn't make all that much noise about it...

now but w will

"i voted for it, then i didnt"

"foreign leaders support me... I reject all foreign interference into out elections"

and we thought trippi was overpaid....

Kerry is writing bush's campaign ads... its too easy

except Bush can be called on his 4 years of flips..ie..'I do not believe in nation building' etc..

Yeah, the mud-flinging is going both ways. Bush is writings Kerry's ads as well. Oh, and I believe Spain and Poland both have said that they want Bush out of office now. South Korea ain't to happy with George W. right now either. The fact that bad guys don't want Bush around doesn't convince me that they'll want Kerry around either.

It really is remarkable how politically stupid it is for a Presidential candidate to speak openly of how preferred he is by the heads of foreign governments. Can you imagine Clinton engaging is such idiocy? I have the sneaking suspicion that this election is going to be lost, rather than won. One of these two guys is going to screw the pooch, or, more likely, they both will,and the one who screws it last will lose. Kinda like watching the Mets play the Tigers in the World Series. To echo Casey Stengel, can't anybody here play this game!?

More like Wendell Willkie, in 1944, suggesting that Hitler and Tojo prefered him to FDR.

More like Wendell Willkie, in 1944, suggesting that Hitler and Tojo prefered him to FDR.

I can't remember when the leader of an American ally (Spain) came out and endorsed the opponent of the sitting President. Has this *ever* happened before?

Judson,
That remark came before 9/11. That changed everything. Bush still doesn't believe in nation building, but it's something we have to do in both Afganistan and Iraq to prevent another 9/11.

With friends like Mahathir Muhammed---John Kerry does not need any enemies. I'm sure that some soft money supporter of President Bush will find a way to use this endorsement to the disadvantage of the Massachusetts senator.

Of course, Kerry never said any such thing in the first place. But don't let the facts get in the way of your fun.

Sure, Orbitron. That's why Kerry has refused to specifically detail the thing he never said, instead of simply saying he never said such a thing.

But Kerry has disassociated himself from Mahathir's endorsement and support. I guess that means that it wasn't Mahathir that Kerry was referring to in the first place.

John Kerry will not be the Democrat presidential nominee. He is dead meat. The man will soon be at least a solid eight points behind President Bush. Kerry’s flip-flopping ways are destroying his campaign. He will be asked to step aside for John Edwards.

Sure, Orbitron. That's why Kerry has refused to specifically detail the thing he never said, instead of simply saying he never said such a thing.
Posted by Will Allen

Will, I posted a link. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the reporter who says he misquoted Kerry.

Orb, I don't have the time right now to find the links for you but that's not the only time John F'n Kerry said this. He's referred to the foreign endorsements several times.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your fun.

Robb, please excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

Orbitron,

Kerry is not disbuting the "foriegn" part of the quote.

"Patrick Healy, the Boston Globe reporter who covered the fund-raiser, had quoted Mr. Kerry as saying: 'I've met foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly, but, boy, they look at you and say, `You have got to win this; you have got to beat this guy; we need a new policy. Things like that.'

Mr. Kerry said on Sunday that he had used the word 'heard,' not 'met,' prompting Mr. Healy to revisit the recording. On Monday, he sent out a corrected transcript, clarifying that the quotation actually began, 'I've met more leaders who can't go out and say it all publicly.'"

www.nytimes.com/2004/03/16/politics/campaign/16CND-POOL.html?ex=1080104400&en=e24dd8c9198013fe&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

Jim English
Chicago

Fact is, Kerry made the comment based on the fallacious notion that Americans care what the rest of the world thinks. I think that Americans notice, and some might even be a little disturbed by the noise in Europe and such, but in the end, America makes its own decisions. Kerry's comment demonstrates the fact that he is out of step with ordinary Americans.

Orbiton, how about this?

"I'm not going to betray a private conversation with anybody," he said Sunday. "I have heard from people, foreign leaders elsewhere in the world who don't appreciate the Bush administration and would love to see a change in the leadership of the United States"

Pressed on the campaign trail and by reporters to name the leaders, Kerry declined, although he said they were U.S. allies.

"I'm talking about people who were our friends nine months ago," said Kerry. "I'm talking about people who ought to be on our side in Iraq (news - web sites) and aren't because this administration has pushed them away."

The original quote, supposedly mistranscribed, was from March 8. This was Kerry's clarification on March 15th. Yes, Orbiton, he really did say such a thing.

Hey You Guys Who Note That Kerry Never Denied using the word "Foreign" & that it's clear in context that he was referring to foreign leaders:

Orbitron thinks you're all Sons Of B#@%*$s.

TomCom

I stand corrected. Kerry really did say that he had the support of a lot of foreign leaders.

I don't see why anyone should find such a statement inappropriate, given the current administration's idiotic foreign policy, but hey, there you go.

"I don't see why anyone should find such a statement inappropriate, "

First, it's generally considered inapproppriate for allied countries to involve themselves in internal campaigns because it can cause the alliance to suffer if the non-supported candidate wins. This goes both ways, Reagan and Thatcher never openly supported each other even though it was obvious they needed each other.

But secondly, you miss the point. Kerry now states himself that such actions are inappropriate regardless of your personal beliefs. To sum up the events to date: Kerry injects the matter of foreign support into the public debate, then says the matter is private. He later adds that the subject he brought up is inappropriate in the first place.

His willingness to say anything to get elected is leading to mistakes. These things add up over time and add to his already impressive resume as a weathervane.

Whoever said this election will be won by the candidate who screws up the least is right.

His willingness to say anything to get elected is leading to mistakes.

Yes, Bush has that problem.

Orbitron, I don't have a problem with the president-to-be having a good relationship with foreign leaders. If John Kerry can prove that he will work better with our allies to accomplish US interests, then I approve. If he can prove that he can better negotiate with dictators who oppose us to accomplish US interests, then I approve.

If however, he is preferred by other leaders because he will more easily accomplish their interests, that is a disadvantage. It isn't our president's job to help other countries achieve their goals unless it helps the United States.

But we can't judge whether Kerry has the support of foreign leaders for appropriate reasons unless he gives us their names. Since he won't, I can think of only two reasons: he either doesn't have their support, or the names would not be complimentary. Those are the only two reasons I can think of, but I'm open to other interpretations.

But we can't judge whether Kerry has the support of foreign leaders for appropriate reasons unless he gives us their names. Since he won't, I can think of only two reasons: he either doesn't have their support, or the names would not be complimentary. Those are the only two reasons I can think of, but I'm open to other interpretations.
Posted by shell

Those leaders will still have to work with the extraordinarily vindictive Bush administration should he gain a second term. They may not wish to be named.

I can't remember when the leader of an American ally (Spain) came out and endorsed the opponent of the sitting President. Has this *ever* happened before?

Possibly not, but all things must be taken in context. Europe has been moving farther left ever since the fall of Hitler, but during the Cold War it would not have been considered politick by an allied foreign leader to complain about the US's standing president, the US being the only world power capable of meeting the Soviets head-to-head should it have ever come to that. There was plenty of grievance with US policies and approaches, just rarely open disagreement (at least, not on the political side; on the entertainment side, listen to Sting's Russians sometime).

Thereafter, we had Bush Sr. (worked on the NAFTA underpinnings and led the charge in Gulf I, in which war fortuitously obeyed the conventional geopolitical lines and made Saddam's expulsion from Kuwait and indisputable priority) and Clinton (didn't matter whether or not you agreed with his policies, he could spin oil and honey until you felt good again).

So now we have the first president in the post-Cold War climate to take a priority line which is openly at odds with left-of-the-US slant of the average European politician and, surprise, they're openly unhappy with it. It is merely the fruition of things long in coming to pass, not some unique failing of the Bush Jr. administration (although no doubt his political opponents might like to present it that way).

Sooner or later some huge threat to European peace, and one which cannot be met at an EU negotiating table, will manifest itself and then either Europe will learn the hard way that butter softspeak must be balanced by a credible big stick, or else the US will once again be found providing the guns.

Those leaders will still have to work with the extraordinarily vindictive Bush administration should he gain a second term. They may not wish to be named.

Orbitron, not sure what makes the Bush admin "extraordinarily vindictive". The only thing I can think of is that companies whose countries don't have troops on the ground in Iraq can't be lead contractors. Which strikes me as less vindictive than common sense.

Still, the sensible course for nervous foreign leaders is to keep their mouths shut, rather than try ingratiating themselves with a possible Kerry admin. Kerry has his own reasons for not mentioning any names, but this lets these foreign leaders have their cake and eat it too.

Countries do not have friends, they have interests.

If a leader says that he prefers one candidate over another, he is saying that he thinks that one candidate will be better for the interests of his country than the other will be.

Essentially, Kerry is bragging about how other countries think that he will be better for their interests than Bush is.

This does not make me particularly proud of being a democrat.

Countries do not have friends, they have interests.

If a leader says that he prefers one candidate over another, he is saying that he thinks that one candidate will be better for the interests of his country than the other will be.

Essentially, Kerry is bragging about how other countries think that he will be better for their interests than Bush is.

This does not make me particularly proud of being a democrat.

Countries do not have friends, they have interests.

If a leader says that he prefers one candidate over another, he is saying that he thinks that one candidate will be better for the interests of his country than the other will be.

Essentially, Kerry is bragging about how other countries think that he will be better for their interests than Bush is.

This does not make me particularly proud of being a democrat.

Jeez. I only pressed the button once, too.

"More like Wendell Willkie, in 1944, ..."

Wilkie was FDR's opponent in 1940. The Republican candidate in 1944 was Dewey.

spanish surrender minister endorses kerry...

hahahahaha

orb, gt, etc.

the issue isn't whether bush will convince you, as he obviosusly won't

30-40% think he eats babies for breakfast while ashcroft burns the constitution for winter heat...

but the 20-30% in the middle of the pack are convincible... kerry's statements aren't likly to go over well with these people...

Orbitron, not sure what makes the Bush admin "extraordinarily vindictive".
Posted by PJ/Maryland

What they did to Valerie Plame strikes me as pretty vindictive.

Orbitron has it right. The Clinton Administration was much more understanding and forgiving - just ask the folks from the WH Travel Office, or Paula Jones, or Juanita Broaderick, or Kathleen Willey, or Dolly Kyle Browning, or Linda Tripp. They were also far more generous to their friends - just ask the Chinese military about all their new missile and warhead technology. Think how nice they were to Johnny Chung and Charlie Trie. They even spared Osama to fight another day. And remember how nice they were to Marc Rich and the FALN. What great folks, by comparison.

Now that vindictiveness is known to be confined to the Bush Administration, I trust that we won't hear any more loose talk about how our failure to ratify Kyoto cost us allies in Iraq.

By the way, how do we know that Kerry's "more leaders" haven't given equally empty assurances of their support to Bush? If they're that scared of him, it would seem the prudent thing to do.

I see it's time to bring up Clinton. Can 9-11 be far behind?

Orbitron,

"Those leaders will still have to work with the extraordinarily vindictive Bush administration should he gain a second term. They may not wish to be named."

Use of the word extraordinarily, by definition, welcomes comparisons to other administrations. So it is you who indirectly brought up the Clinton Administration with your completely unsupported put down of the Bush Admininstration. Please spare us the indignation. Thank you.

Jim English
Chicago

I was so pleased to see that you used four m's in "hmmmm" because that is how it is written in the song title. Your attention to detail is astounding and makes me think you are a kindred sprirt. I like it, I like it a lot!

Comments are Closed.