We are getting repeated nonsense spams by someone calling himself the Libertarian Kool-Aid Drinker. I have deleted 5 comments so far.
I don't want to IP ban the distinguished law firm of Debevoise & Plimpton, from whence he posts.
I know folks at Debevoise. Shall I complain to them, or will you stop being an ass?
Posted by Mindles H. Dreck at April 16, 2004 05:41 PM | TrackBack | Technorati inbound linksI wouldn't be so patient - I'd be reporting him tout-suite.
Posted by: Dan Dunn on April 16, 2004 07:47 PMI personally think you should immediately IP ban anyone who calls another poster names are attacks the other poster with attacks.
It should be about the ideas, issues and facts. I mention how many times I went to the library per week in 1991. A liberal poster decides they should attack me on that point. Why?
That's all that liberals can resort to lately. Attacking without applying the same standards to themselves and the party the align themselves with.
As I said, more and more conservatives are being elected over liberals on a yearly basis. The House of Representatives was controlled by Democrats basically (with a 2 year gap) from 1940-1994. The Senate had a very similiar record. The state governorships and legislatures had similiar records. Now things are turning around and there are a majority of state governorships who are Republican and state legislatures also. We all know about the House and Senate and White House.
The funny things is... being a Republican almost means nothing lately. Government is growing at record pace and illegal immigrants might be given amnesty (or workers permits).
Republicans are to the left of center and Democrats are extemely to the left of center.
I suppose that is why Republicans are being elected more than 50% of the time lately. They are the centrists of today. :)
Posted by: Doug on April 16, 2004 07:57 PMHuh. I thought the Democrats were right of center, and the Republicans way, way right of center. Just goes to show...
Posted by: Jesse on April 17, 2004 03:34 PMWell. If Center means status quo in government (no growth in government -just keeping up with inflation) then both the Republicans and Democrats have proposed and spend more than cost of living increases. The news media may say slash/cut/ax etc. but by any truthful way you slice it a 7% increase is a 7% increase not a 270 Billion dollar cut.
For those who are up to speed, they'll know that I was referring to the year 1995 when the Medicare budget was being increased by the Republican Congress 7% per year for 7 years and Clinton/ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN was calling it a $270 Billion dollar cut.
:)
Libertarians are truly right of center (when it comes to government size). Most of those to the right have to vote for Republican just to keep government growth down 1% or 2% what it would be if Democrats were in charge.
Generalizing of course. But so do they when they way that Republicans are mean spirited, anti-environment, anti-education, anti-social security. (Remember Al Gore's comment where he was accusing Republicans of wanting to kill old people)
Posted by: Doug on April 17, 2004 09:03 PMThe fact that libertarians are philosophically opposed to big government holds them back electorally. Getting campaign donations from important interest groups means pledging a portion of the federal budget to their support. Libertarians say up front that they will decline to do so, making it difficult to cultivate the financial resources required to win election.
Posted by: Gomer Bolestrune on April 18, 2004 07:01 PMLibertarians say up front that they will decline to do so, making it difficult to cultivate the financial resources required to win election.
Gomer, the trick is to tell the important interest groups that the Libertarians will keep the government off their backs. This doesn't work with general taxpayers (who usually have a stronger interest in obtaining government contracts than reducing their taxes), but ought to work with gun dealers, fast food makers, the porn industry, and the drug industry (including illegal drugs, of course).
Posted by: PJ/Maryland on April 19, 2004 01:18 AMGomer, the trick is to tell the important interest groups that the Libertarians will keep the government off their backs. This doesn't work with general taxpayers (who usually have a stronger interest in obtaining government contracts than reducing their taxes), but ought to work with gun dealers, fast food makers, the porn industry, and the drug industry (including illegal drugs, of course).
I have a somewhat different take on that. I do not think that it is a matter of “obtaining government contracts” so much as people have come to expect government to provide for things such as their children’s education (government schools, financial aid for post-secondary education), their retirement (Social Security), health care when they get older (Medicare), etc. while government has deprived them of the resources (property taxes, payroll taxes, income taxes, regulatory burdens, etc.) that might otherwise make it possible for them to take care of these needs on their own or through non-governmental resources.
Posted by: Thorley Winston on April 19, 2004 09:51 AMThe fact that libertarians are philosophically opposed to big government holds them back electorally.
Pfffft, like we didn't know that ;)
Posted by: Noah Yetter on April 19, 2004 11:33 AMAnother philosophical difference between the right and the left is that the right tends to believe more in individual responsiblity while the left tends to believe more in social responsibility. These two values are in a zero sum game, so that increasing one means decreasing the other. These values cover a continuum, and I certainly don't advocate being at one end or the other of the continuum. I think a mix is called for, but I think the predominant value should be the individual responsiblity value and not the social responsibility value.
This is one reason why I object to the philosophy that it takes a village to raise a child. What it really takes is a couple of strong parents, with some minor help from the village. The village can and should provide assistance to those people who need help, but to say that it is the responsiblity of the village is to diminish the responsibility of the parents. And in our country, the village can't do it all, or even most of it. The vast majority of child-raising should be done by the parents.
I believe that looking at this continuum explains why flyover country leans to the right while urban areas lean to the left.
Posted by: Rex on April 19, 2004 11:55 AMI like your take Rex.
I find there are several scales that can be applied to the left and right...
1) Government size scale - Left means more government spending, Right means less government spending. On this scale the extreme right is anarchy and the extreme left is total government control over the economy (communism). The Democrats and Republicans both advocate increases in spending every year so they are both to the left of "center" generally.
2) The Rex scale - Left means more group 'think'. Right means individual responsibility. Someone needs to take responsibility for raising the child. In Group 'think' each person in the group can point fingers and say that person or group failed. If Individuals are held responsible the ultimate responsibility for a child being fed or given sheltor is the parent of that child. This can also spark discussions about how the right today is for judging each person on their merits and not the color of their skin and the left is for granting preferential treatment to groups based on the color of the skin.
3) Regulation scale - The left is for more regulation and the right is for less regulation. It could or should be pretty clear to anyone what more or less regulation is. Both parties have generally supported more regulation so they have both been left of center. Less regulation would be tied into the following examples:
a) A person who commits the crime with a weapon does the time. This takes away the endless need by politicians to make more and more gun regulation. You can have a one pager that bans anything automatic, larger than a certain round, or plastic housing
b) A free trade agreement (like NAFTA) wouldn't have to be 12,000 pages with loopholes, special favors and set asides. It could be a one pager saying that there will be no tariffs in this trade zone over 5% except for the following products etc.
I'm sure there are more scales that can be defined. And a single person can fall onto each scale differently. For example myself. If the scale were -10 through +10, I would be a -1 on the 1st and 3rd scale (meaning I consider myself someone who advocates slight decreases in the government budget or regulation burden - fairly moderate position I think), but on the 2nd scale, I'm a big believer in personal responsibility and having a safety net not a hammock and I probably would fit at the -5 range.
I should probably reaarange the scale so that negative is positive because I believe my positions are/would be positive direction for America.
Posted by: Doug on April 19, 2004 06:37 PMComments are Closed.