December 19, 2005
From the desk of Jane Galt:Dell hell
You know, over and over again I have stood up for Dell Computer. Sure, their outsourced technical support people generally can't speak English so well, and given that they are, like, 5,000 miles away from the mother ship, they don't really understand the company procedures well enough to help customers when something goes wrong. But who is better, I asked. Who is providing the kind of good old American service we used to expect from our computer companies? No one, that's who, and given that, you certainly can't beat the value of a Dell.
That was then. I have just had what may be the worst customer service experience of my life with Dell. They may have soured me permanently on the company.
Let us travel back through time to one month ago, November 15th, when my mother asked me to order a computer as a surprise Christmas gift from my grandmother to my Aunt Annie, who has taken over the job of running the house and paying the bills since my grandfather died. "I will order it from Dell right now," I told her, and forthwith did, finding a very nice deal on a Dimension 3000 that set us back a little over $850 including shipping and tax.
Fast forward to December 5th, when the computer has still not arrived. There begins the odyssey of telephone calls to people at Dell, the US postal service, and my grandmother's caregiver, trying to track down the elusive package. No one knows where it is. Nor do the Dell people evince that much interest in finding out, despite their promises to locate it immediately and call me back with the information.
Trusting in them, I let things slide until sometime around the 10th, at which point my mother begins to worry that the computer will not arrive in time for Christmas. Another call to Dell. Where is the computer? No one knows. But not to worry, they will order us another one and have it Fedexed when it is ready. It will arrive in plenty of time for Christmas.
At that point, I begin my routine of calling Dell once a day to see where the computer might be. It's in process, I am told; the people at the customer service desk cannot track it down until it comes out of manufacturing and is ready to ship.
Today, I call them again. "Where is the computer?" The first fellow I call, located somewhere in Latin America, seems to be very nice except for his near-total inability to comprehend my English. Now, I have never won any diction prizes, but when I say "two", very few people in my experience mistake that for the number "three". He also cannot locate my records in the system, despite being provided with the original order number, my name, and my telephone number. Eventually I ask to be transferred to a supervisor. I am transferred . . . to the supervisor's mailbox.
I hang up and call Dell again. This time the Indian fellow has no difficulty whatsoever locating my record. "it's been cancelled," he informs me cheerfully. Apparently, Dell is no longer manufacturing that model. Why didn't they, y'know, call us to tell us that the order had been cancelled? Blank silence. I mean, it's a pity that it's now six days until Christmas and all, but they'll transfer me to hardware support, who will tell me what my options are.
Keep in mind that I have been calling them every single day since we ordered the replacement, to make sure that the thing was actually percolating through the system. On Friday afternoon, five days after the replacement had been ordered, no one mentioned this little issue to me. Apparently, they stopped manufacturing the Dimension 3000 some time this weekend. Undoubtedly all the workers were in Hong Kong, protesting at the WTO.
Hardware support, when they finally pick up the phone 15 minutes later, is, of course, completely befuddled as to why I, who have not yet received a computer, am speaking to them. I, too, had tried to suggest that hardware support might not be the appropriate place to transfer me, but the customer service representative had assured me that they would be able to help me out. Of course, they could not. What they could do is waste another ten minutes asking me for the exact same information I'd given to the previous fellow, and then a further 5-10 minutes transferring me back to customer care--whereupon I was informed that Dell was doing me the tremendous favour of crediting my account for the $850.
You would think, that with all the customer service problems they have been having, Dell would not want another customer out there saying "Dell strung me along for a month and then dumped me on the computer market five days before Christmas." You would think, in fact, that they would be falling all over themselves to fedex me the closest thing they could find to what we ordered at no extra cost to myself. Or maybe you wouldn't think that. Maybe I'm some sort of woeful naif with an outsized sense of entitlement who believes that just because Dell's colossal screwups threaten to leave my family without a present under the tree for my much-put-upon Aunt come Christmas morning, that Dell should try to fix it.
I am currently holding for a supervisor. I have now been on the phone with Dell for well over an hour, and so far all I know is that I should have bought the damn computer somewhere else. I'll know better next time.
Update Should have seen it coming: Dell disconnected me, but not until after I waited another ten minutes or so to speak to a supervisor. Now on call #3.
Update II They've cancelled the order. Five days before Christmas, and I have to find another computer that my family can afford. Dell's idea of resolving the problem is magnanimously informing me that they will credit the money back to my account, as if not charging me for merchandise that they haven't, y'know, sold me were some kind of enormous innovation in customer service.
I wish I could be funny about this. But we had a limited budget for the computer--my grandmother is not wealthy--and now I have to go out and try to find something decent in that price range, which is going to be pretty damn hard. There's a very good chance that my Aunt Annie, who has been taking care of my grandmother without complaint for over a year since my grandfather died, will not have her gift under the tree. Everyone in the family was so looking forward to having something special to give her to reward her for all her hard work, and now we're back at square one, with five days to the holiday and no time to find a good deal. If I weren't so mad, I'd cry.
Update III One of the major pitfalls of outsourcing to India, it seems to me, is that when I said "this is a Christmas present for my Aunt, who's been taking care of my frail little 91-year-old-grandmother all year", I was met with the same suave lack of interest as if I'd informed them that I planned to start writing a memoir of my years as the assistant sanitation chief for Dubuque as soon as I got the computer. That only added to my rage, which, to be fair, was already pretty considerable. They also displayed no motivation to even pretend that they were going to do anything except repeat that the Dell Dimension 3000 is no longer being manufactured, but--never fear!--they are graciously prepared to give me my money back.
Update IV I seem to have inadvertently implied that Indians are incompetent and/or mean in the update above. The point was just that Indians presumably don't understand the cultural significance of Christmas, any more than I understand the cultural significance of . . . umm . . . that holiday where they throw colored powder all over each other. Although it looks like mad fun. I assume that Indians are just as compassionate and caring as Americans are. Although I have only met a small fraction of India's 900 billion people, my experience so far has been very pleasant. If we can generalise up from my small sample, Indians are lovely people indeed.
Update V I contacted Dell's press office to give them a chance to respond. They're being very nice and trying hard to resolve this.
Update VI Dell has just called to offer me free expedited shipping and a 10% discount on a similar refurbished machine from their outlet. I've had very good experiences with their outlet machines . . . I'm typing this on one right now . . . so I'm very happy with that. In fact, all I wanted last night was for them to Fedex me an outlet machine, which I could see they had on hand, and pay for the expedited shipping. Mistakes do happen, and I don't blame Dell for the fact that things went awry. I was just angry that they weren't fixing the problem, which they've now done, and exceeded what I thought I was entitled to. So three cheers for Dell, after all.
Posted by Jane Galt at December 19, 2005 04:19 PM | TrackBack | Technorati inbound linksDell certainly is going out of its way to shoot itself in the foot.
My last experience was trying to order a power supply. It took roughly ten transfers to find someone who would allow me to order it (I could not find a way to order parts through the web site). At every transfer, I got the same question - "Who told you that you need a power supply?" No one told me - I'm trying to tell you.
I work a help desk myself, so I know how this happens. The business keeps growing, but the management refuses to expand the customer service staff. But a company that has staked its reputation on customer service should know better.
Posted by: Randy on December 19, 2005 05:05 PMI'm not a fanatic at all, but I was able to use my iBook right out of the box by just hitting the power button. I'd suggest that as an easy solution since your grandmother and I both have the same computing needs (i check email, read your blog, and do databases in apple works... don'te ven play mp3s anymore)
Posted by: Fenton on December 19, 2005 05:24 PMIt's for my aunt, who has a son who games, so a Mac isn't an option.
Posted by: Jane Galt on December 19, 2005 05:29 PMI once spent 55 minutes with Dell's tech support. I had three simple questions. At least I thought they were simple. When I asked about a beeping noise that occurred every 3-5 minutes, I was instructed to turn off my speakers. When confirmed the absence of the sound I was told my problem was solved. I disagreed, but we decided to tackle the other problems and come back. Next we argued for twenty minutes about whether or not my computers inability to complete the power down phase of the restart cycle was a "new feature." Eventually we decided to come back to that one as well, but my third question must have been especially difficult. I was told he would need to consult with a manager, placed on hold, and eventually dropped.
On the upside, the woman I got when I called back cheerfully suggested reformatting. I didn't think twice. Copying all my files and reinstalling everything was far simpler than dealing with their tech support.
Jane-
Very surprised that you are having this problem. When I ordered my Dell 4000 it arrived so fast that I thought they were reading my mind and sent the d@mn thing before I even called.
Of course, since then it has been nothing but a pain in the butt: It has a habit of randomly erasing Microsft Word, it only runs certain applications when it apparently feels like it, and the housing on the box itself is not very snug because it rattles like a freaking old Dodge pickup. And if I may suggest, if you finance the little bugger don't bother trying to pay online, because as far as I can surmise that despite having a website to do so, you can't.
Posted by: Deak on December 19, 2005 05:50 PMThey could have saved everyone a lot of work if they had simply been honest and told you up front when you called that they really weren't that interested in having you or anyone you might tell about this as a customer.
In the old days, the standard estimate was that a satisfied customer would tell one other person but a dissatisfied customer would tell seven. Now, when a dissatisfied customer is able to tell the entire world, avoiding dissatisfied customers should be every company's clear focus.
Posted by: triticale on December 19, 2005 06:04 PMPCMall regularly has reconditioned HP desktops at very attractive prices. And they will ship two day or overnight. www.pcmall.com
i think it's everyone's duty to help merchants who obviously have too many customers, or at least more than they want, by reducing the load any way possible. let this be your Xmas present to Dell.
Posted by: Michael O'Hare on December 19, 2005 06:13 PMWell, I think we have consensus. Dell sucks and should not have any of our business.
Jane, try looking up deals on BestBuy.com. They sometimes have great buys on aging models (you know, anything over 8 months old). If there is a BestBuy near you, you may even be able to walk out the door with it. Or did you need to have it sent to your Aunt? That might be an issue, given it's the 19th already, but it is worth the try if you get on it tonight.
After years of dealing with all the issues of the Windows PC world (well catalogued above), and mostly for the sake of gaming, I went back to the Mac. I thinks its my best move this year. So far its been flawless. I still have my PC (not a Dell) and it took five tries to fire it up this morning.
I play with my XBOX.
In fact, I should've stuck to Macs.
Philippe
Megan:
I would recommend calling a company near where your Aunt and Grandmother live. They are much more likley to provide the personal service that you need.
I live in Rochester, NY and we got our last computer from a company called MGM Technology Group. My wife works from home and must have a computer that is reliable. The cost was comparable with Dell and the service has been great. I would be suprised if most larger communities did not have such a company.
I know of at least three near me.
Posted by: Mike on December 19, 2005 06:20 PMI am a former Dell customer too. I just bought an eMachines T6524 and am happy with it so far. Page is here, http://www.emachines.com/products/products.html?prod=eMachines_T6524 . You can pick one up at a Best Buy store. It has good hardware for the money, and comes with Microsoft Works, Windows XP, and Nero.
Posted by: Jim Clay on December 19, 2005 06:47 PMI've always been a big fan of Tiger Direct. The noise cancellation headphones I ordered last week arrived after 2 days with cheapest UPS shipping; I live in Chicago though.
They have an EMachine for $349.99 ($459.99 - $110 rebate), so you may be able to pay more for shipping and still be in your price range.
And you can be glad that you won't be stuck with Dell parts if you want to upgrade memory.
Posted by: Tomorrowist on December 19, 2005 06:51 PMYep, I get my stuff from a small company which assembles right here, a medium-sized town in the west. When I first went this route, many people warned me of what a chance I was taking just to get a good price; who knows what type of serivce I would get? Well, I get great service from a company which has been here for 20 plus years, from people who are friendly, and for the most part overqualified, there being a surplus of techies in this neck of thr woods. It's worth a quick yellow pages check near your aunt's home, Meaghan, assuming the logistics of getting it from the store to wherever you want your aunt to receive it aren't to ornerous.
Having had my own customer service experience from hell today, in which I finally convinced the people I was dealing with that I would make it my life's work to expend as many of their resources as possible, in whatever time I have left on this planet, if I was not satisfied, I have great empathy and sympathy for your plight. That's three hours of my life I won't be getting back. Good luck.
Posted by: Will Allen on December 19, 2005 06:54 PMYou might want to consider the Mac mini. The high end is $699, and all you need to add is a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. I'd be willing to bet that you could do that for the $200 difference, perhaps a bit more.
Re: gaming, the mini has the ATI Radeon 9200 with 32M VRAM, so you won't be able to use the shader effects in Halo... but you can play Halo, Unreal Tournament 2004, Rise of Nations, Warcraft III, The Sims 2, Worlds of Warcraft..., Civilization IX (OK, not yet)... the point is, the Mac gets virtually all of the A-list titles, with the notable exception of the Half-Life series. Yes, we sometimes get them a year or two after the PC, but we also get a) the bug fixes, and b) the expansion packs, typically in the same release ("Gold Edition").
Posted by: Paul Snively on December 19, 2005 06:55 PMI've always dealt with Gateway, I never had abad experience with them, they are having some holdiay specials right now.
http://www.gateway.com/programs/giftguide/index.shtml?Cm_ven=Vanity&cm_ite=holidaygiftguide2005&cmpid=consumer*home*TechSection*HolidayGiftGuideGreatDeals*programs/giftguide/index~~shtml
I forgot to add: an $899 Dell isn't going to be a gaming rig at all, not even close to the Mac mini, and you'll be lucky if it has an empty AGP slot to add the $300 video card you'd need to turn it into one.
Posted by: Paul Snively on December 19, 2005 06:56 PMVery often, customer service operations are managed at the wrong level of detail. They are *micromanaged* in terms of the behavior of the individual CS rep: frequently, there are scripts telling them exactly what words to say in what circumstances. But at the same time, the *overall workflow* as seen through the eyes of the client (like, what happens when a product is discontinued) is not analyzed or even conceptualized at all.
Posted by: David Foster on December 19, 2005 07:06 PMNow, I'm with you all the way here until "Update III." What exactly is it about the thing's being outsourced to India, that makes the person at the other end not give a damn about your aunt and grandmother? Oh, and if it were some schmoe in Iowa, he/she would be so much more sympathetic than those awful Indians?
Posted by: Sanjay Krishnaswamy on December 19, 2005 07:31 PMMy father had a business and always lectured me that good service was expected and bad service was remembered. He liked to remind me of a little poem:
Service was great, that's fine
Service was bad, tell nine.
But I think you've told a lot more than nine.
Posted by: mossy on December 19, 2005 07:32 PMAt least you didn't get trampled trying to buy one at 6AM the day after Thanksgiving.
Well, maybe that would have been preferable.
Posted by: Ivan on December 19, 2005 07:34 PMAt least you don't have to worry about trying to collect on your rebate from Dell. They make it incredibly difficult and lie to you in what can only be a conscious effort to cheat the customer out of his rebate. I'd love to now what percentage of their rebate offers actually get paid out. I got mine but only because I'm a lawyer and used to dealing with fraud. But I'll never buy from Dell again.
Posted by: Mike on December 19, 2005 07:47 PMSanjay,
Her point was that the Indian did not (probably) have the cultural background to understand that the Christmas thing was a big deal. I highly doubt that she was trying to say that Indians don't have compassion.
Hey lil' girl, maybe this comic will cheer you up.
Just tryin' to put a smile back on that pretty, lightly freckled, elfish porcelain face of yours.
One thing you might also try is ordering one through your business. They may care less about you, but if your company is big enough, then they might take notice. Has anyone else noticed an option to buy, "expedited" customer service?
Good luck!
Jane,
Paul Snively is right on about the Mac Mini as a worthwhile option and also about the cheapy Dell's limitations as a gaming platform. If it's really for your Aunt (not her game-playing child), get her the Mac. A bottom-of-the-line mini plus affordable flat-screen (non-Apple) and USB keyboard and mouse could be had for
Posted by: Mindpunk on December 19, 2005 08:12 PMless than $850. And the kid can play more games than you'd ever imagine. PC games run pretty well under emulation, though nothing beats an X-Box, frankly.
Posted by: Mindpunk on December 19, 2005 08:15 PMDell computers are limited by Dell's insistence on only using Intel processors. Go buy an AMD Athlon 64 based system. You will get more power for the money. And if gaming is an option, make sure you get a system with a dedicated graphics card and not onboard graphics: these are acceptable for 2D performance only despite the marketing monkers like "Extreme Graphics." Also, look for a system that uses a PCI-Express graphics interface--AGP is a rapidly fading standard that neither ATI or Nvidia is releasing its new cards for, and thus is becoming a legacy standard only. Emachines has good basic systems, but they often do not come with productivity software, and that is why they are cheaper. But if your aunt has a son who is a student one could get MS Office Student/Teacher edition for just $129, or go with the free open source OpenOffice 2.0 from Sun which is quite nice.
Posted by: CMC79 on December 19, 2005 08:53 PM"It's for my aunt, who has a son who games, so a Mac isn't an option."
Good luck on your aunt getting any time on the computer to do "run the house and pay the bills." It sounds like there is a "rest of the story" here.
If it's really for your aunt, get a Mac mini so there will be no gaming (which BTW is not a verb in this sense, so why am I using it that way? You've infected me. I should go and "plate" my dinner now.) If it's for the little sprog, get a cheap *desktop* PC. Why pay more for a laptop.
Posted by: Stephen on December 19, 2005 09:31 PMI bought a Dell about year and a half ago through my company for which I got the better support through the company. Doesn't mean the computer doesn't suck though. I had to replace the motherboard about 90 days after I got it, the hard drive fried for no reason after about a year and 60 days after that I had to replace the RAM.
I will never buy another Dell again.
Posted by: Kate on December 19, 2005 09:42 PMSigh. I understand all too well. Fortunately for me I build my own computers and can decide what I want by simply buying the right parts. Unfortunately there's no way I could put something together and ship it to you in time for Christmas. Well, not since I have a day job.
Posted by: Jim S on December 19, 2005 09:50 PMI really miss my local computer shop that Dell ran out of business. I could pick up my computer and drop it off on my way to work and pick it up then next day. New computer purchases were always a pleasant and satisfying experience.
I am a financial controller at a company that purchased 75 PCs from Dell. To not fault of Dell's and all my fault, some employees were ordering computer equipment from Dell without proper authority. Turns out anyone placing a phone order is acceptable to Dell.
After an hour of phone trauma trying to get connected to credit or finance, I wrote a letter telling Dell to close our credit accounts. I never heard back from them and they continued to accept orders from employees (any employee) until I got it stopped internally.
Posted by: David on December 19, 2005 10:43 PMTry looking for a local company like this one here in Utah.
http://www.totallyawesomecomputers.com/
I build my own with the help of friends, but have watched my parents deal with Dell (and Gatweay) Hell. Unless you are a computer tech (or have easy access to one) why would you not buy from a local source. There is a good reason why businesses have IT (computer tech) folks in house. Computers are not (despite what Dell says) appliances.
Posted by: Jess on December 19, 2005 10:55 PMYou would think, that with all the customer service problems they have been having, Dell would not want another customer out there saying "Dell strung me along for a month and then dumped me on the computer market five days before Christmas."
"Dell" neither wants nor doesn't want anything. "Dell" is not a person, and it does not think or calculate costs and benefits. What you have is a bunch of people who are collectively called "Dell" who must follow certain procedures which were written without knowledge of your specific situation, and who have no personal incentive in seeing "Dell"'s success. You must take the successes of modern capitalism along with its failures.
Posted by: Adam on December 20, 2005 12:22 AMIt's not that complicated, really. You can order online and pickup at Circuit City or Best Buy. Tiger Direct is a good option, too. All three of them are still shipping for Christmas as well.
And for what it's worth, I ordered a Dimension E510 Pentium 4 630 with a gig of ram, 80 GB hard drive, Windows xmedia out the door for $979 (including tax and shipping). It was actually 1179, but I had a coupon. (Dell coupons rock, and you should always watch for them.) It was far more computer than my sister thought she could get for her kids, and it's arriving tomorrow (ordered last Wednesday).
I'm neutral on Dell, but I can't see why you would have waited that long. There are Dell outlets, aren't there? Did you try going into one of those?
Jane,
I can't offer any new advice, but perhaps you'll get a kick out of an even worse customer service story. It took me five months to get my new car after ordering it, and I got the wrong car! My problem went all the way to the executive office and they couldn't resolve it, either.
I expect customer service to improve over the long run as companies realize that some of their unfortunate customers might be bloggers.
Posted by: Captain Arbyte on December 20, 2005 12:34 AMWelcome to Dell Hell. I won't bore you with my own Dell story, but rest assured Dell will have to do nothing short of giving me my next PC for free if they expect to retain me as a customer.
Posted by: honesty_now on December 20, 2005 12:47 AMCheck out Staples, Office Depot, Radio Shack. In any store only buy what they have in stock and take it home with you. If you get it home, take it out of the box, and it doesn't work, you can take it right back to the store and either get a replacement or a credit. Also, pay with a credit card (this is about the only time one should ever use a credit card) because there are some safeguards for a limited time and you can cancel within 24 hours or so. Mail order is great for a lot of things, but not for expensive stuff. Face it, any CR rep is going to be a subcontractor, wherever they are located. The issue is, how does the OEM manage the sub. This will cost Dell as others have pointed out.
Posted by: jimbo on December 20, 2005 04:49 AMIt's for sale on ebay right now for $520. There are also better models for under $700. There are some still under warranty as well!
Posted by: Anga2010 on December 20, 2005 05:47 AMJane
Try some of the price comparison sites. The ones here give reviews of sites and brands.
People seem happy with e-machines. IBMs (Lenovos) are fantastic but expensive.
Interesting comment on the wheels dropping off the trolley of the Dell business model-- they've squeezed customer service too tightly.
John
(remove at to reply by email)
"They may have soured me permanently on the company." If you are done with Dell for all time, you are either a saint to forgive so much or a big-time stock-holder hoping the stock price will go back up.
These people screwed you over in a big way right before Christmas.... don't ever give them another dime of your money.
Best of luck with the computer search.
Posted by: Zendo Deb on December 20, 2005 06:46 AMIn a similar vein:
http://volokh.com/posts/1132781578.shtml
The evil Bush Administration doesn't want your Aunt to have a computer. It doesn't want old people to have anything. Except maybe the grief of having a grandchild killed in Iraq to support the oil interests, the Israelis, and Haliburton.
Unless your Aunt is one of the super-rich; then she'll be lavished with tax breaks while the middle class starves and African-Americans are allowed to die. Have a Merry non-conspiratorial
Christmas.
Definitely second the advice to use a local company. I bought from usedlaptopcomputers.com, which is located in south jersey. I got a computer that was indistinguishable from new, I ordered it monday night and had it wednesday morning - the week before thanksgiving.
Posted by: Tim on December 20, 2005 09:05 AMA couple things:
eMachines=Gateway, they were bought sometime in the last few years.
Also, add Acer to the list of companies you are considering buying from; last I knew their pants still fit ok.
Posted by: Max Erickson on December 20, 2005 09:30 AMMegan,
No matter what else you do, send Michael Dell a link to this post. It is far too easy for the CEO to suffer from the "mushroom treatment". Most times, the problems of individual consumers don't get this much visibility.
Posted by: Ed Reid on December 20, 2005 12:01 PMJust another suggestion - I know you're here in NYC. Try Madison Computer Corp. I know they look shady, but they're a great white-box outfit - really good service. Cheap, too. You have to know what you want, but if you print out the specs of the Dell box and take that with you, they'll get at least pretty close.
Posted by: fishbane on December 20, 2005 12:09 PMIt's definitely a problem - Dell and HP both have service so horrible that it boggles the mind. IBM used to be the more-expensive-but-decent-service option, but I think the jury is still out on whether Lenovo will continue in that mode (I had a bad Lenovo service experience this fall). So who does one buy from these days when service matters?
One tip for all - a high percentage of the time, the problems with all manufacturers' machines is the large amount of crappy software that they preinstall. You'll reduce your odds of needing support a great deal if you either do a clean install yourself on a new PC, or buy from a local computer store who won't lard up the system to begin with.
Good luck getting your computer, Jane.
Posted by: Doug on December 20, 2005 12:13 PMI had the same kind of problem with ordering other goods from Amazon. I am not enamored with their customer service. I'm buying less over the internet as a result.
Posted by: CrudeBoy on December 20, 2005 12:25 PMAdam:
"Dell" neither wants nor doesn't want anything. "Dell" is not a person, and it does not think or calculate costs and benefits. What you have is a bunch of people who are collectively called "Dell" who must follow certain procedures which were written without knowledge of your specific situation, and who have no personal incentive in seeing "Dell"'s success. You must take the successes of modern capitalism along with its failures.
No, no, Jane can put the blame for failures squarely where it belongs:
"Apparently, they stopped manufacturing the Dimension 3000 some time this weekend. Undoubtedly all the workers were in Hong Kong, protesting at the WTO."
Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft on December 20, 2005 12:33 PMI'm not familiar with fishbane's recommendation, but I buy my PCs from local whitebox vendors.
They aren't quite as cheap as Dell, but they're competitive, and have the great virtue of staff one can go see in person and strangle (or in Jane's case, bat eyelashes at). They also offer more control for those of us particularly picky about components....
Posted by: Mike Earl on December 20, 2005 12:37 PMJane,
Perhaps one day an artificial intelligence will run a computer company. As much as I like to talk to a human being on the phone to resolve issues of service, I find I much prefer efficiency.
BTW, you are a great writer.
Posted by: Phil Smith on December 20, 2005 12:53 PMContrary to pretty much everyone in this thread, I love Dell. I recommend them when people ask me what to buy. I've bought a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of Dell equipment this past year -- for the company, of course.
I've spent a few thousand of my own money on Dells and Dell branded equipment (mmmm 2405FPW). I've never had significant problems with any of the machines I've personally bought, and of the hundreds of desktops and notebooks we've ordered, we've had problems with three or four machines.
For a company, they make much more sense. We hardly ever deal with their tech support or customer support; we have our own in-house tech, so when we need something replaced, it's a ten minute phone call to confirm an issue and for them to order the replacement part.
There is no margin in the home market. Margins on harware are slim slim slim -- and any profit they make on selling a home user a computer is lost providing tech support to that home user. It's a losing proposition.
So by all means -- if you need personalized tech support or customization beyond what Dell (or any of the big box makers) offers, support your local computer shop.
But here's a universal truth for you : technology sucks. It's not easy. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.
Posted by: bkw on December 20, 2005 01:37 PMI had a truly awful experience with Compaq customer service. It took them five months to figure out that the problem with my machine was a bad memory chip, in spite of my helpful guess at the very start that the problem was a bad memory chip. Instead, the replaced the processor. When that didn't work, they replaced the hard drive. Computer repair that uses the Monte Carlo method doesn't impress me.
I've never had a bad experience with Dell, but perhaps that's only because my Dell actually works. On second thought, I did call them once over some minor matter, and the service was abominable. Or was that Symantec?
Come to think of it, the only good customer service I ever got from a computer company was from Microsoft. I normally despise Bill Gates and all his works, but I have to give the devil his due.
Jane Galt, why were you calling Dell instead of checking your order status on the Dell website? Do you think the customer service people have any more information than you can get for yourself?
Posted by: James B. Shearer on December 20, 2005 02:10 PMDitto Doug's comment about ordering your computer (from anywhere) without software/OS loaded on. There's a lot of crap, some hidden, some not, larded on, along with what you actually wanted. In addition, when you fire up your internet the first time, you may find you have about 300 naughty bits of spyware/trojan horses, courtesy of the deals companies make with Dell (or whomever). So you spend a hour removing crap.
I've ordered a ton of stuff from Dell and fortunately everything has worked well. Their tech support is horrible, yes, and Megan's story is particularly macabre, though no less believeable for all that. But whose tech support or customer hotline isn't a nightmare? I was ripping a couple new ones for SBC billing and service people the other night when I lost internet service, and it was the same thing - repetitive phone trees, actual people who don't/can't/won't help, etc. One wonders why noone has decided to differentiate themselves in this way, offering and advertising better support. That's a TV commercial I'd pay attention to.
Posted by: Mike W on December 20, 2005 02:15 PMGuys, when there are two possibilities:
a) I am an idiot
b) There are some circumstances that have caused me to avoid the obvious
. . . try to assume b) is the correct answer.
The reason I didn't use their website is that the replacement computer did not show up there; the status on my order was marked "shipped", referring to the first computer that was lost in transit. So yes, I did think that the customer service people had more information than I could get myself, and I was right; the order is still in the system as "shipped".
Posted by: Jane Galt on December 20, 2005 02:21 PMI have had several Dell machines, & they were decent boxes. However, the last time I bought a new PC I discovered that Sony's VAIO was a more cost-effective chioice, plus it had features built-in that Dell didn't (memory stick reader compatible w. my Sony digicam).
Give Sony's products a look. - Plus you can pick them up at Best Buy! Looks as the current models may be above the price point you're looking for, but there are quite a few from eMachines that look close. Agree w. earlier posters that an $850.00 PC will NOT be a "gaming" machine, unless for simple stuff! :)
Unfortunately, everyone loads up a ton of preinstalled software, most of which I never have a use for.
Hope you're also including antivirus & firewall software!
Posted by: JohnW on December 20, 2005 03:02 PMA few years ago, afellow economist had a similar experience and wrote about it. You might want to check it out:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north159.html
Posted by: Diego on December 20, 2005 03:29 PMCongratulations.
I'm very happy it worked out for you. Personally, I've never had any problems with Dell, but I could feel your pain.
I can't help but wonder if I (or anyone without a well-known blog) could have gotten the same result, assuming I had the patience to stick with it all the way to their "Press Office" (and I had that telephone number).
Now let's hope FedEx doesn't experience any problems. Just in case, you may want to print a color picture of the computer for inclusion in a gift box. ;-)
Merry Christmas.
Posted by: Middle Browser on December 20, 2005 03:39 PMPosted by: Mike W : "But whose tech support or customer hotline isn't a nightmare? I was ripping a couple new ones for SBC billing and service people the other night when I lost internet service, and it was the same thing - repetitive phone trees, actual people who don't/can't/won't help, etc. One wonders why noone has decided to differentiate themselves in this way, offering and advertising better support. That's a TV commercial I'd pay attention to."
Perhaps because it doesn't work that way - all sorts of companies talk up their service, usually their 'award winning' service. In most cases, a customer has at best a vague idea of the quality of service. The up-front price, however, is clear and knowable. This is actually a generalization of the rule of thumb that up-front prices are knowable, but back-end costs are only known with a lot of experience.
Posted by: Barry on December 20, 2005 03:43 PMYou must have seen Jeff Jarvis's Dell Hell series, right? If not, see: Dell Hell. Same problems, different blogger, not nearly as willing to cut Dell some slack as Ms. McArdle.
Posted by: fkaJames on December 20, 2005 04:15 PM3 cheers for Dell? WHAT?! How can you possibly still support them after all your hassles?
Dell is a crappy company with average products at best.
Here's what you should have done:
Buy (or order) an Apple Mac Mini.
Pick up a 20" Samsung LCD monitor for $340 at newegg. Cost: around $850, same as your Dell. And this way your family doesn't get stuck in Windows Security Hell.
(I'm not an Apple fanboy, I don't even own a Mac yet. I'm just sick and tired of crappy computers and software. Since I moved my parents to a Mac they haven't asked for computer help in over a year).
Posted by: Carl on December 20, 2005 06:01 PMI just noticed the "son who games" comment regarding a Mac.
Um... did you know that Dell PCs suck for games? They are a complete joke as far as gaming performance goes. I hope that son doesn't want to play any cool games.
Posted by: Carl on December 20, 2005 06:15 PMBarry-
Yes, you're right that commercials typically insert some crap about their wonderful service. My thought was that as so many have posted, many, many people have now had many, many bad experiences with tech support, and many people are utterly convinced, as they should be, of the commodity nature of PCs. I think you underestimate the savvy of computer consumers today. If this were 5 or 10 years ago, I think it would be easier to differentiate on product reputation, or style, or anything. And I agree merely talking about it isn't going to get it done. I was suggesting that some company should really seek to be known as the easy-fix, friendly tech/billing support company.
Look at Gateway, IBM, esp. Compaq/HP (ah, the Fiorina years), etc. and their efforts to brand their products in various ways, all failures to varying degrees. Dell succeeded because they had a quick product cycle and fast, made-to-order production. What they don't have, and what noone has, is good service. Would people pay a little extra for that? Would the business model be sound? I don't know. But you have to compete on something.
Posted by: Mike W on December 20, 2005 06:55 PMWhat a gulf there is between hardware geeks and the rest of the computer-buying public.
I haven't touched an Intel machine in 5-6 years, and Dell happens to be an Intel-only shop.
Not to mention all the proprietary parts they use in the builds.
Posted by: Harry on December 20, 2005 07:12 PM$850 is enough to buy a nice, quality machine from your typical local "whitebox" builder, whose service is therefore also local and likely in the local language. Whiteboxes outsell brands for good reason.
Posted by: Jay on December 20, 2005 07:37 PMIMO there are only three avenues to go with computers:
1. Build it yourself if you have the time and technical skills. If it's for someone else, make sure you have time to answer the periodic technical questions. (From that person, and pretty much everyone else -- once you're marked, you're marked.)
2. Failing (1), go to the locally-owned computer shop/whitebox vendor (or if you have no PC-centric software requirements, buy Apple). Yes, you WILL pay somewhat more than Dell's sale-of-the-week, but unless the local vendor is run by one unkempt guy chain-smoking clove cigarettes, you're making a fairly safe investment: the people there are doing it because they like it and have the requisite skillset to troubleshoot and diagnose obscure problems.
3. Failing both (1) and (2), go to the local big-box store, pick out something close to your needs, and buy the extended warranty. Again, this will cost you extra, but the local techs are more accessible and knowledgable than an international phone support flunkie reading an if-then flowchart. And should something truly calamitous happens to the system, you will typically receive a comparable replacement in direct exchange, or equivalent-credit against a new machine purchase.
Buying at the lowest possible price point, regardless of source, is only sensible if you're willing to invest necessary resources to deal with the ocassional vendor scotch-up. Otherwise, spend the extra -- even if you have to lower your system specification targets a bit -- to get quality service.
Posted by: anony-mouse on December 21, 2005 03:14 AM" One wonders why noone has decided to differentiate themselves in this way, offering and advertising better support."
One doesn't have to wonder. Many companies have decided to differentiate themselves by offering far superior support. They all either went under or got wise.
People say they want better service. They're lying. They want the best price. This fundamental truth has been validated constantly by research and real life.
You want to wonder? Wonder why companies even bother offering customer support. It's incredibly expensive and adds no value; as a rule, only 10% of any customer base will ever contact support. That damn 10% is costing everyone else in the world a hell of a lot of money.
Of course, once companies figure this out, India goes into a recession as 20 million customer service reps get laid off.
Posted by: Cal on December 21, 2005 04:10 AMOk, Cal, I relent.
I guess the only alternative is to humiliate the poor saps who waste our time on the other end of the phone. Works for me.
Posted by: Mike W on December 21, 2005 10:23 AMHow can you tell the person by the side of the road is a computer support technician?
He's changing each of the tires to see if it is flat.
Posted by: triticale on December 21, 2005 08:04 PMI gave up on Dell more than a decade ago, when they refused to SELL me a replacement copy of Windows (this was back when it was customized for specific hardware) that a technician had inadvertantly deleted. Let me say that again: They wouldn't SELL me something.
Posted by: Donald A. Coffin on December 22, 2005 12:20 PMI gave up on Dell. It's like the mongoloid marching band. I was disconnected so many times (eight in one night) that i decided they did even know how to handle a phone.
My current computer is made of scrap parts. I think I'll make another and forget the whole damn thing about buying one.
Posted by: Terry on December 23, 2005 03:41 AMTech Support for smell computers
You might enjoy this
Posted by: Zendo Deb on December 23, 2005 11:29 PMI suppose I should mention that Foamy the Squirrel (the link above) is NOT work safe.
Posted by: Zendo Deb on December 23, 2005 11:34 PMToo late now (sorry to be late to the party), but even as an owner of a decent recent DELL, I'd go next time with an eMachine. Cheaper, faster, technically superior and available at Wal-Mart. Customer service seems no better nor worse than anyone else's.
Bon chance.
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