Asymmetrical Information

["..It's hard not to gape at the astonishing cluelessness of MTA workers.."]

...well, the NYC municipal unions have been spectacularly successful in extorting outrageously high pay & benefits from city politicians over the past 40 years --
it would seem they are NOT clueless about furthering their own economic self-interest.

The 'clueless' folks are those average, non-wealthy NYC citizen-taxpayers who have not yet moved out of that city.

I really don't blame the union for this. I blame the city of NY for making it possible. And if the city doesn't break the union this time, then the city will be responsible for the next strike as well.

Of course the union is selfish. That's what unions are for.

Hmm. So Bill Weld is challenging Spitzer to take a stand on the transit strike. Probably a decent move, politically. It's much easier for Republicans to attack a strike by a public sector union than for a Democrat.

So...I'm now wondering whether it would be possible for a small business to sue the union for loss of business due to an illegal strike?

If Bloomberg had a brain, he'd announce that at 5:00 pm today he's firing 10% of the striking transit workers, chosen at random.

And 10% more tomorrow, and so on until the problem is solved.

He'd be mayor for life, and become a front-runner for President.

10% only because firing 100% might take the system too long to recover.

FYI, the MTA is a state agency. New York City has no power over it.

Also the Taylor Law, passed in 1967 as a result of the 1966 transit strike, limits actions that can be taken by officials against strikers, at the same tine it makes the strikes themselves illegal -- i.e., they're not allowed to strike and can be docked two days pay for each day out, but the MTA can't take retaliatory action by firing the workers, as with Reagan and the PATCO strikers.

The militant TWU people are yelping that the Taylor Law's strike ban is unconstitutional, but if it were to be repealed and the 1947 law it superceded put back into effect, they could strike, but the MTA could then fire them and open up their positions for new applicants (which like the PATCO strike did with air traffic, would hobble the subway lines for a while until the new workers could be trained to run the trains, though teaching the newbies to drive a bus wouldn't take nearly as long).

If MTA is a state agency, where's Pataki? Why isn't he firing 10% a day?

If MTA is a state agency, where's Pataki? Why isn't he firing 10% a day?

Posted by: Calvinist

Pataki is an idiot,he doesn't care about the TWU.
all he cares about is using this to improve his
image.he's just like bush,an a'hole.

"To the mother who must walk with her son in the cold...We all have to do what we have to do...My son has to figure out a way to get to school but is he crying?? NO because he understands that his mother is doing what she has to do.To those that feel this strike is an selfish act on MTA employees parts I say you are the true selfish ones only now thinking about how you'll get to work or around the city when any other time you take us and our duties for granted. It seems actually it is obvious your unappreciativeness towards the people that get you from point a to point b on a daily basis regardless of most circumstances. Belive and trust we do feel bad and apologize for what many of you will feel and for the inconvience our actions may cause but I will not apologize for doing what I can to make a better life for MY CHILDREN and MYSELF and if it means at this point to inconvience the people of NYC then so be it. Why are we the selfish ones?? Why should we work for month or years with out raises. Yes I took this job because of the benefits it affords and I am glad for the most part that I did it serves my purposes for the life I choose to live despite the indfference,mistreatment and disrespect that has been meted out to myself and my coworkers.But I'll be damn if after the opportunity arises to make the things that should/could be/get better better will I apologize. Please please try and understand the reasons for a event that has been long long long over due."

at atleast one trainsit worker sumed it up good.
and Jane Galt,why don't you work for the TA for
a day and see what's like to work for the MTA.

Oh, the ONLY penalty under the Taylor Law is the negligible wage deductions? So basically, because the TWU members still have a statutory right to strike. There's no point in saying something's illegal without providing any credible enforcement mechanism.

Jose, I think the massive subsidies the New York taxpayers give to the MTA employees to pay for inflated wages and gold-plated benefits that no private sector worker can get now is appreciation enough.

I love to hear from the denizens of the cocoon-like world people like Jose (he's for real, right?) inhabit. They think that in addition to decent pay, ridiculous benefits, and early retirement, they should get more, and more respect, too, dammit, for their just-about-completely unskilled labor. Here is the essence of the leftist worldview (FOR SOME, OK?) - that the world should be a comfortable, easy place for us, and if it's not, if there's some perceived diffculty, or inequity, or the grooves aren't greased well enough, well, it's someone's fault, isn't it, and probably those rich people in power, who aren't like those Dems who care so much, because they tell us they do, like Hillary Clinton, who has courageously avoided taking a side on this one.

Jose, you're getting plenty, and other people have it tough too. Most of those that don't either worked very hard for it, or their parents did so they wouldn't have to. Try the private sector, where checks and balances, competition, and insecurity and unknowability hold sway. You know, the way the universe really is.

Thus endeth the lesson. Merry Kwanzukkah.

"pissed off conductor said:
boo hoo you gotta push your baby in 20 degree weather or you going to lose a days pay. our strike costs us plenty, if you were looking at injuctions and fines and lost wages and you strike anyway doesn't that tell you something?"

(All quotes in this post also directly from the conductor�s comment.)

Because we are masochists who hurt ourselves by not working, YOU have no right to complain. Our sacrifice should be looked at as noble and honorable. Even though there are 29 qualified applicants rejected for every conductor hired, I still deserve more money because sometimes people "piss a few feet from" me on the job. We are not "respected" for what we do and "(The MTA) is a billion dollar entity who believes its workers are expendable." However, because of a sympathetic city, state, and judicial system our big, bad union is going to stand up to you "self righteous" and "moronic" passengers and show our power.

The problem is that at the artificially high wage points they truly are expendable (hence the overabundance of applicants). This is what happens when compensation is separated from tangible production/customer satisfaction. The free market has been stifled at so many levels (salaries, transit operators, lack of performance incentives by station or line, etc.) that any relevant signals that should be sent by wages are lost, and the employee gets to the point of aversion and even insult of the customer, who he should ostensibly be trying to please.

Two things to say.
1. It is illegal for government workers to strike. Arrest the leaders of the union and jail 'em until the strike ends.
2. The national labor relations laws ought to be changed to make it mandatory for any union in a service industry, upon failure of contract negotiations to have to enter into mandatory arbitration. The primary losers when a union in a service industry (airlines, buses, teachers, etc.)strikes are the customers. Why should they become pawns in the negotiations?

There has _got_ to be some way for Bush to get involved, fire the strikers, and let the MTA rehire only those that won't be obviated by robotic enhancements.

Also, I like how the (inter)national union has already told the strikers to go back to work. I think they see the potential for this to eviscerate their organization, and want to cast the local 100 as a bunch of renegades so they can safely disown them and take their assets before the City and State can.

BTW, if you don't like how you're treated at work, quit and find something better. If there isn't any better, then shut the f--k up and suck it up like an adult.

Where's a bat-wielding Pinkerton when you need one?

I am utterly gobsmacked by that comment. That may be the pithiest --albeit unintentional-- summation of the mindset of people that suckle at the government nipple that I have ever heard.

I am at a loss for words.

Pataki can't fire anyone because MTA stands for "Metropolitan Transportation Authority." In New York State, Authorities are strange independent feifdoms, controlled by their own governing boards. The MTA has 17 governors nominated by Governor of the state, the mayor of NYC, and the various counties served by the MTA. All governors are confirmed by the NYS Senate. So there is little Pataki or anyone else can do at this point to influence the MTA's handling of the situation.

["...you are the true selfish ones only now thinking about how you'll get to work or around the city when any other time you take us and our duties for granted. It seems actually it is obvious your unappreciativeness towards the people that get you from point a to point b on a daily basis regardless of most circumstances..."]

Whoa. I'm selfish and unappreciative because I patronize NYC public transportation? I pay my full fare for each and every ride I take and have done so for more than twenty years.

I pay my full fare each and every time I enter a subway station even if that ride never comes or is too crowded for me to get onto.

I have paid my full fare (100 times? More?) right in front of countless Transport Workers Union members who could not possibly be bothered to inform me that trains were not running at that station. I have never encountered a TWU member who has had the courtesy or professionalism to help ordinary commuters keep from getting ripped off in that situation. Hey, that's not their job. The union says so.

I have never littered, spit, spilled, disrupted or taken up an extra seat with my packages on the subway or bus. I have never made a TWU worker's job more difficult. I've picked up plenty of newspapers from seats and thrown them in the nearest trash can.

In other words, I've held up my end of the bargain. The TWU can't say the same and couldn't even before this illegal and selfish strike. I find their behavior and comments like the one quoted above deplorable.

Oh, the public employee unions serve their members first and foremost, then their elected-official benefactors next, and the tax-paying public dead last. Such as it always was, and such as it always will be. Why anyone anywhere is remotely surprised by this unknowable. Why anyone would permit themselves to be dependent upon "public" services any more than absolutely necessary is equally unknowable.

Personally, I'd support automatic termination and revocation of pension rights for striking rank and file and prison for union leaders, but I'm a bit of a hardliner when it comes to the Orcs, and ERISA prevents revoking pension rights. Too bad. But maybe for Christmas this year...

Anyone want to bet they actually have to cough up that docked pay? What you need is a law that jails the local union board(s) for a month per day out. Mandatory.

New offer: 30% cut in pay, co-pay on insurance, 401K for retirement. (at 65-70). In other words, just like EVERYONE else. I've read that the average employee is making over 60K a year there. And they want more? Fire them all, start over, look into automation.

I echo New Yorker's comments in response to Jose and the train conductor. I'm sorry, but aside from the occasional friendly bus driver, MTA employees are incredibly rude. Half the time, they can't be bothered to do their jobs. And it is our fares and our tax-subsidized bond offerings that pay your salary. Why don't you try finding a job somewhere else. You'll find that the market for rude, lazy, obese people isn't too good.

Toussaint believes himself the reincarnation of Mickey Quill. Fine, play the game that way; throw his ass in jail.

Only this time, there won't be a twirp like Lindsay standing on the sidelines waiting to cave.

PS: If you don't sign a real name and hook when you call people out you are a gutless punk.

I'm looking right at you, Jose, you ignorant dolt. When I was born my name was penciled onto the MaBSTOA rolls. This strike is about Toussaint's ego, and that jackass Lynch from the PBA and the gutless wonder running the teacher's union spurred him on (but, notice, didn't take their members out in sympathy strikes)....

�"Probably a decent move, politically. It's much easier for Republicans to attack a strike by a public sector union than for a Democrat.�"

I live in Houston, Texas and I have little pity for New Yorkers. Many of you have caused enormous damage to this country because of your radical liberal politics and warped cultural values. You well deserve your present grief with the transit authority strikers.

If you voted for either a Ripon Republican or a liberal Democrat---then you deserve your plight. These imbeciles will get you killed because of their silliness regarding the war on terror and impoverished due to their ludicrous economic policies. Sucking up to the unions is a long established Democratic Party practice. Why are some of you acting surprised? The handwriting has been on the wall for a long time. You liberal New Yorkers should take voting a bit more seriously. Do you still want to complain? In that case, just look into the mirror. This is the first person you should blame.

Sitting here in Ohio, I am sure glad that the US transportation department decided to put more money into mass transit instead of highways. ;)

re: David Thomson's comment-

It's harsh and extreme, but part of me thinks he's right. As a New Yorker, it really is clear to me that this strike is the logical extension of some of our blindly left-wing fiscal politics.

And I'm a pro-gay-marriage pro-choice socially left-wing kinda guy...but still, just like OJ getting off was a logical extension of 90's political correctness, it seems like this strike shouldn't be too surprising. Shit! But wait, there's gotta be a middle ground between Bush and Toussaint...

If only Ayn Rand wasn't so boring, maybe we could get more people to read her shit and understand some of the important points she takes too far.

David Thomson: You are correct. We in New York have gotten the government we voted in, and are now suffering the consequences.

Even those 11% of Manhattanites like me who voted for Bush in the last election.

Now *that's* a beleaguered minority.

David Thompson,

No offense, but I've got to ask you something: Do you actually...um...know any actual New Yorkers? Have you actually ever...um...been to New York (and no, getting a connection through LaGuardia or JFK doesn't count)? Somehow I doubt it. I can pretty well guarantee to you that my borough has more churches than your whole city, and more per capita. When I go into the polling booth, I have the option of voting for the Conservative Party. How about you? Let me clue you in here, pal, watching a few episodes of "Sex in the City" and glancing at a stray copy of the New York Times does not give you a whole lot of insight into what New York or its people are about.

�How about you? Let me clue you in here, pal, watching a few episodes of "Sex in the City" and glancing at a stray copy of the New York Times does not give you a whole lot of insight into what New York or its people are about.�

Are you saying this with a straight face? Knowing people living in the city is considered anecdotal evidence. I prefer looking at the hard facts. New Yorkers have overwhelmingly supported liberal candidates---and their warped leftist ideology. This nonsense is the reason behind the self pitying remarks of your strikers. They bizarrely perceived themselves to be victims fighting injustice! Oh, the suffering is so great. �Earning� around $60,000 annually, having the best of health benefits, and retiring at fifty. How does one sign up for such abuse?

David --

New Yorkers are actually fairly politically rational for a major U.S. metropolitan city, in terms of how much goo-goo liberal crap they'll put up with. The tradition used to be that the city would not elect a reform mayor unless the Democrats controlled both the governor's office, Congress and the presidency, since that was the only time there was no Republican in power in site for the Democrats to blame their problems on. That's how Giuliani got into office in 1993, and by tradition, it shoud have gone back to the Democrats in 2001, with Pataki in Albany and Bush in Washington.

But after Sept. 11, New Yorkers just couldn't bring themselves to voting former Naderite Mark Green into City Hall and went with Bloomberg, who admittedly had just switched to the GOP line to avoid a primary fight, but at least at credentials in the business world of actually knowing how to run something.

Mike would certainly be a RINO in most places, but New Yorkers will jump the party line to vote in someone relatively competent in times of trouble, rather than lemming-like go walking off the deep end with one party, as folks in places like San Francisco, Washington D.C. or Detroit do on a clockwork like basis (and have you glanced up Interstate 45 recently and taken a look at the goofballs the people in Dallas have been voting onto the city council and the school board for the past 15-20 years? Texas isn't immune to clueless voters who'll fall for demogaugery over actual results).

David Thompson,

Yes, I am saying that with a straight face. You made a characterization of New Yorkers - a very, very, stupid one. Knowing which politicians get elected to national office tells you about the statewide political coalitions. It tells you very little about the views of individual voters. Of course, the transit strike effects people regardless of their political views. But, let me read your statement back to you:

and I have little pity for New Yorkers. Many of you have caused enormous damage to this country because of your radical liberal politics and warped cultural values. You well deserve your present grief with the transit authority strikers.

Seems like you feel all of us in New York deserve what's happening to us. Then perhaps Ayn Rand or William F. Buckley (both New Yorkers) would have deserved a transit strike. After all, New York was also liberal in their day. Put bluntly, you're flirting with the sort of thinking that helped coin the term "idiotarian".

I've got an answer for all the MTA workers pining away for respect or appreciation: Europe.

Hundreds of trains in Europe are completely computer controlled. Gee, just imagine better on-time arrivals, no safety loss and no union bozos; sounds like a winning idea I can certainly respect and appreciate.

I can pretty well guarantee to you that my borough has more churches than your whole city
I guess you didn't notice that he's from Houston ;).

I think that David is just trying to point out (maybe not in the most tactful manner) that there is a logical cause-and-effect relationship between electing "labor sympathetic" pols and massive strikes. Of course, one problem with this situation/claim is the large number of unelected officials playing a major role in the controversy. Also, the transit strike is so unpopular that I'm guessing even most left-wing elected officials are taking pains to avoid looking sympathetic to the union's cause.

�Seems like you feel all of us in New York deserve what's happening to us. Then perhaps Ayn Rand or William F. Buckley (both New Yorkers) would have deserved a transit strike. �

Nope, Bill Buckley and Ayn Rand would be victims of the majority�s stupidity. They would be forced to pay for the idiocy of other people. Hey, whoever said life was fair?

submandave --

New York had an automated train in operation back when John F. Kennedy was president. Lasted two years, was destroyed in a fire at the Grand Central shuttle station, and the program was never reactivated by the TA after heavy union objections.

Welcome to New York politics.

Bill,

"Do you actually...um...know any actual New Yorkers?"

Really, sir you overestimate the provincialism of Texans. Virtually, every person in Texas has seen a New Yorker because every zoo in the state has at least one in its collection. My own local zoo has a prized Bronx construction worker and my family often goes to hear his eerie cries of "What'cha lookin at?" and "I got your zoo attraction right here, pal!"

Just as everyone in the world thinks they know all about Texas from watching TV and movies I am convinced that I know everything about New York because it appears even more often on screen. For example, I know that New York has a very low crime rate because the people on "Seinfeld","Friends" and other shows never lock the front doors of their apartments.

Perhaps once the strike is over and transit workers are back in uniform, small business owners could refuse to serve them - a personnel boycott.

David Thomson:

As a NYC resident I am very familiar with the media-invented slur that I am automatically some kind of condescending chauvinist who sees the rest of America as "flyover country." Yet the greatest source of region-based bigotry is truly coming from people like you. "New Yorkers deserve to slip on the ice and have miscarriages in the freezing cold on their way to a minimum-wage job, because it's a ST00PD LIBRUL town that HURTS MURIKA."

Hey, you know who else hates New York liberals? Osama bin Laden.

Enjoy your culture war, and keep pretending that we New Yorkers are the ones who sneer at and demean other citizens.

It seems the union workers have forgotten that their pay comes directly from the taxes and fares paid by the very same people they are now royally pissing off. First annoying someone and then asking them for more money seems like a bad tactic to me.

And this comes from someone who, unlike the majority here, support the rights of unions. Workers should go on strike if and only if they are being treated unjustly. Of course, this happens very rarely, and most strikes, at best, generate short-term successes while sacrificing long-term reputation and even job security.

Yes, David Thomson, if only New Yorkers would criminalize sodomy like Texas used to, the trains would run on time.

At least you aren't blaming "warped cultural values" for hurricanes yet.

In the spirit of the holidays, may I say something nice about New York City folks?

They're not from Boston.

New York is a great place to visit...

The thing that gets me about NYC (and eastern cities in general), is that going there is like stepping back in time. I'm even tempted to say backwards. I find it amusing that people stuck in a time warp imagine their cities to be bastions of progressive thought.

I mean, think about it. Problems with the unions? How 1960s is that?

“Hey, you know who else hates New York liberals? Osama bin Laden.”

You forget to mention that New York liberals hate George W. Bush more than they do Osama bin Ladin. Your city’s voters gave overwhelming support to John Kerry in the last election---endangering the lives of everyone in this country. Left wing New Yorkers would rather be ruled by politicians in Paris, France. Remaining an American is an inconvenience. It isn’t considered cool.

Just in case anyone wants to read the comments from the TWU blog they are posted here:

http://gothamstrike.blogspot.com/

Also included are pics of the workers asleep on the job.

"Your city’s voters gave overwhelming support to John Kerry in the last election"

As did 49% of America.

"endangering the lives of everyone in this country"

Tell that to New Orleans.

And again, seriously, by all means keep rationalizing hardships and suffering against American citizens because of their beliefs. Though the message sounds best in the original Arabic.

Hey Benjamin Leo, letting OJ off was not, repeat, not an extension of '90's political correctness. The jury had no choice but to acquit once Mark Fuhrman's planted evidence came to light.

Sean,

You may want to check up on that church thing. While it could have possibly changed in recent years, Brooklyn NY is actually known for having the largest number of churches per capita of any city in the country. Given that Brooklyn boast a higher population than Houston (as an independent city it would rank third in the country), the total number of churches would necessarily be higher than that of Houston.

Of course, if David means what you're saying he ought to say as much and recognize that his comments screwed the pooch. I really don't have a problem acknowledging that the presumptuous liberalism that governed New York for decades left the city and state with a number of problems both with finances and governance. But, that's not what he said. His comments stated that he believes that New Yorkers deserved the transit strike, even going so far as to cite "warped cultural values" as an aggrevating factor. Where I'm sitting, he's sounding a hell of a lot like Pat Robertson blaming the gays and feminists for 9/11.

This might be a good time to note, that the last private bus company operating city routes will be taken over by the MTA in January--apparently the idea behind the takeover (arranged earlier this year) was that if the MTA was operating it, service couldn't be disrupted by a strike...

4th... Chicago and LA still have more people than Brooklyn, and Houston would trail by 500,000 people.

Sorry, h0mi, my bad. I had known that. I guess that's what happens for commenting at work.

Selfishness, its a virtue!

I for one have to cheer a selfish union. I mean I am pretty much an Objectivist. A union should say no to altruistic sacrifice!

Jane Galt,

You write as if the transit workers owe New Yorkers their labor. Why shouldn't I endorse their right to withhold it?

"You forget to mention that New York liberals hate George W. Bush more than they do Osama bin Ladin. Your city’s voters gave overwhelming support to John Kerry in the last election---endangering the lives of everyone in this country. Left wing New Yorkers would rather be ruled by politicians in Paris, France. Remaining an American is an inconvenience. It isn’t considered cool."

Actually, if we all put our heads up your ass and join your in your ignorant reverie, us New Yorkers...

a.) Are really just endangering ourselves and other leftist queer folk like us in gateway cities. Last time I checked, even Islamofascist terrorists couldn't be persuaded to pay any mind to a shithole like Houston.

b.) Paris, Texas, Paris, France. Zero diff, we hate both of you nearly equally. Also, please stop visiting, we promised to never grace your fair state (of ignorance).

c.) Narrow-minded self-righteous people without a modicum of circumspection and perspective are what's endangering our country and it's stature in the world. Kudos to you and your kind, are you happy now?

d.) Since most New Yorker's I know (which is a lot, since I rarely leave our Jewy little island of ethnic impurity), don't like unions and were about as abivalent towards Kerry as W., can I safely infer that the rest of your firm convictions and statements have an equally high bullshit quotient?

e.) I live 3 blocks from GZ, I saw people jumping out of the towers that morning. In person. Don't tell me who I hate, you glib little turd. You who have strong opinions from the safety of soccer practice, you're right--we don't care what you think.

Anti for President!

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