Asymmetrical Information

" who knew Dunkin Donuts wasn't already nationwide?"

Anyone in California.

Just in case you didn't know they arer also international. They are all over Japan and still expanding.

Unfortunately, Dunkin Donuts has recently changed their recipe. I know this because I've been drinking their coffee for probably 25 years, and it now sucks. The French Vanilla flavor, which I used to love, is now undrinkable, since they now use flavor shots instead of flavored beans. Disgusting! The change seemed have happened recently (say, within the past year). I cannot fathom why they would do this, but the thinking seems to have been "let's reduce our quality and see if anyone notices." Oh, well.

Shouldn't post comments before the first cup of coffee in the mornig. In Japan it is Mr. Donuts not Dunkin. Sorry about that.

Actually, California did have Dunkin' Donuts in 1991 or so. I saw two in San Diego, though they were admittedly very sparse. So, at least some parts of California had it. More recently I've seen them at airports in California.

At some point maybe around '92 or '93, the two I knew about in San Diego lost their franchise and changed their names to "Sunny Donuts" (they were run by Asians and that's a common 'super great' adjectival qualification) and yet kept all the recipes. At least, I could detect absolutely no difference.

I always wondered about that as far as legal infringement issues went, and if it had to do with some kind of state-wide retraction of the franchise, but I never looked into it. I'm not sure if they kept the coffee bean sources, though. So I cannot attest one way or another about Matt's complaint.

As far as service goes, it is true that the more sparsely distributed the better the quality. Boston, the home, has by far the worst median donuts ever...probably fewer than 1/3 of the outlets even bake their own, and I'd swear some of them sell days old items, though they may only seem that stale.

It was a big deal when Krispy Kreme invaded the Boston area about 4 years ago, actually. Not sure about their national franchise history. Though if you think DD coffee has become bad, for some reason KK seems equally incapable of producing a good drip-style brew. Ah well.

Better donuts than Krispy Kreme.

Personally, since the 'ol DD gave up on their trademark Dunkin' Donut, I've chosen not to darken their doorstep.

Seriously, how does a firm pitch out its cornerstone product?

They are even here in Athens, Greece..

My favorite Dunkin Donuts story was finding them in Seoul last year. Their melon-glazed donuts, red bean fritters, and kimchee-flavored long-johns were all very good, and much less alien to my Corn Belt palate than what natively Korean places served for breakfast. I'm afraid that beef intestine stew and abalone porridge are a bit out of my range.

Of course, McDonalds in Seoul had green tea McFlurries and deep-fried apple pie, so they won the "best fast food thirteen time-zones from home" contest.

Dave -

It's interesting to hear about green tea McFlurries and melon-glazed donuts. Having lived in Hong Kong and gotten Hawaiian pizza from Pizza Hut and Dominos (ham, pineapple and corn, of course), or going to the 7-Eleven to find green tea ice cream and 15 kinds of barbecue potato chips but no plain potato chips plus those bags of little salted fish to munch on, most of what you wrote sounded credible. I've frequently heard that Seoul is one of the hardest major cities in Asia for expats to live in.

But kimchee-flavored long johns? Please tell me that you're kidding.

Dunkin' Donuts has (unfortunately) followed the lead of Starbucks and now offers a variety of "liquid candy" latte drinks. You know, the sort of things that may be as much as 700 or 800 calories.

Here in NYC, at least some of the DD stores have wireless. The one nearest to me (2nd bet 10 & 11) does.

If DD goes into California it will get its ass kicked by Winchell's. Good lord those are the best chain donuts I've ever had.

Please, somebody bring real donuts to China. There are things that sometimes look like donuts, but they aren't.

MacDonalds wins out on breakfast with hotcakes and sausage... but I miss donuts.

The French Vanilla flavor, which I used to love, is now undrinkable, since they now use flavor shots instead of flavored beans.

You can brew a French Vanilla that will blow away most others by using 1/2 to 2/3 Folgers French Vanilla flavored coffee grounds, and then use a dark roast of your choice for the other 1/3 to 1/2. Brew, serve, and enjoy.

For a vanilla that won't quit, have the next friend or relative who visits Mexico snag you a couple bottles of 'crema de vanilla' liquer. Same basic concept as Kahlua, but from vanilla beans instead of coffee beans. Wonderful stuff, that.

But kimchee-flavored long johns? Please tell me that you're kidding.

Similar reaction here. What a way to ruin two good foods!

But kimchee-flavored long johns? Please tell me that you're kidding.

Actually, I was just shortening the description so that the prose would flow better. The actually long john is called "Double Hot", and includes ground kimchee and some hot green pepper, also ground. It's shaped just like a regular long-john, but has small red and green specs visible in it. I will admit I did not have the stomach to indulge in them.

After a long night of bulgogi and makkoli with potential business partners, I must say that melon-glazed donuts really hit the spot.

I thought the same thing when I heard Krispy Kreme was "going national" a few years ago.

But really, when you have Krispy Kreme, why settle for Dunkin Donoughts?

And they're coffee isn't renowned everywhere they have a shop either. I know people love their coffee on the east coast, but here in the midwest it's actually pretty crappy. I don't know what the difference is, but nobody thinks to highly of it around here.

I had a friend who moved here from Boston who couldn't figure out why it was so great where she lived, and so crappy here.

Could be the water. Seriously.

Over the past few years at least three Dunkin' Donuts in my area (Indianapolis IN) have closed. There is only one listed in the in the Indianapolis area.

"I like Dunkin Donuts' coffee immeasurably better than Starbucks', anyway."

Different strokes and all that, but YUCK!!!!!!

Krispy Kreme for donuts and anything but Dunkin Donuts/McDonalds/any fast food joint for coffe.

Russ

If DD goes into California it will get its ass kicked by Winchell's. Good lord those are the best chain donuts I've ever had.

Oh, please! Back when there were still a couple of Dunkins in southern California, I'd drive 30 miles to the nearest one, even though I couldn't walk three blocks without running into a Winchell's. It may be, however, that most people agree with you, and that's why Dunkin left.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Jane, don't you know that New Yorkers are forbidden to describe themselves as "parochial"? Likewise "provincial". The only adjective in the same spectrum that is permitted is "sophisticated". It is the rest of the country that is "parochial". C'mon. Everybody knows that.

Please correct your post immediately. ;-)

I find that you're either a Krispy Kreme person or a Dunkin' Donuts person. Krispy Kreme dominates here in the deep south, so naturally I'm a Krispy Kreme girl. Had Dunkin' Donuts in Boston and colored myself unimpressed. However, I had an employee who hailed from Northern Virginia who stayed perpetually depressed at the lack of Dunkin' Donuts. Finally, she gave up and headed back to Northern Virginia. I'd like to believe she had other reasons, but I never was certain.

I think it's interesting that there hasn't been a shout-out for a non-chain "donut-eria"...

A friend of mine lives in Sunnyside NY and one morning the call went out for Donuts. As it was, there was Alpha Donuts on one side of the street and a DD on the other...In the interest of scientific compra, I scored 'nuts from each.

There really was no Q which were better (Alpha), and, it's been my general experience that most local 'nut-eries are superior to either DD or KK.

Was wondering if my experiences are unique, or are there others that have similiar "local" 'nuts stories... (not like these things are good for us, or anything))

Could be the water. Seriously.

Shouldn't be. Any restaurant chain worth its salt (and sugar, and whatever else) will normally filter the water used for any kind of beverage machine. (But if they don't, that would explain the terrible taste in the Midwest!)

Yeah, it does anony-mouse. Filtering the water isn't the same thing as making sure the water has the same balance of minerals. NYC tap water (which is excellent) makes exceptional bagels and pizza doughs. Similarly, you can only get the best sourdough breads in San Francisco partly because of their water quality. Those new orleans doughnuts...what ever they're called, can't be made well anywhere but there, partly because of the water quality. Most of the bakers I know put a great store in the quality of the water and, at least in New York City, won't use filtered water.

That being said I much prefer DD to KKs. KKs are much too sweet. And Starbucks coffee is much to bitter. I do like their breakfast blend though. It reminds me of DD coffee...but is three times as expensive.

A lot of our DDs here in the Chicago area are paired with Baskin-Robbins now. A one-stop shop for all your empty calorie needs.

Hasn't KK fallen on hard times - overexpansion, I believe, was to blame? (That, and those airy, over-icinged pseudo-doughnuts they sell.)

Mike,

KK (NYSE:KKD) hit the slippery slope known as Accounting Fraud-[pseudo-bookkeeping of pseudo-donuts]

fyi...

Just in case you didn't know they arer also international. They are all over Japan and still expanding.

The Philippines is *packed* with American donut franchises. Dunkin Donuts are spaced more densely in Manila than in Boston (and they're pretty thick in Boston!) with a lot of Mr. Donuts and local knockoffs as well. You see them elsewhere in Southeast Asia (Thailand has a bunch) but not nearly as heavily.

Kate, beignets may depend on a lot of things - but the quality of the water is not one of them. New Orleans water.... ick.

Dee -- Want to re-create the Krispy Kreme experience at home? Take a measuring cup, fill it with sugar, add water such that the level isn't raised any, microwave the cup, then drink.

Really, how anyone over the age of eight stands a KK doughnut is beyond me. Okay, they can be decent if you let them cool down, scrape off the excess sugar, and then reheat them, but that's too much work for just a doughnut.

Speaking of non-chain donut shops, you should try out Platinum Plus up in Maine. Here is a safe for work link on that particular donut shoppe:

http://travel.mainetoday.com/fromaway/blog/004403.html

KK has retreated from the Houston area, with most of the franchises converting to some other name. They have gotten their heads handed to them by a combination of a local chain (Shipley's), national chain (DD), kolache shops, and taqueria/Mexican bakeries. KK's donuts were expensive, limited in selection (only 8-10 different types - Shipley's has at least 20 types, plus kolaches, bear claws, fritters, etc.)

BTW, DD not only eliminated the Dunkin Donut, they dropped my favorite, the chocolate lemon, a lemon filled with chocolate on top and no sugar on the outside.

Juat wait until Tim Horton's takes over the US - they're expanding there now, and if their Canadian success is anything to go by, you'll be seeing three on the same block soon enough. Ahh, Tim's...

(Yes, I know it's not bloody likely - allow the dumb Canuck his delusions, okay?)

Ha ha, Anthony. I recall a Dunkin' Donuts on Bascom Avenue in San Jose, CA. Until I read Peter Lynch's praise of 'em in One Up On Wall Street. I thought they were as local as Tico's Tacos. Maybe it's gone now -- I fled the crumbling silicon mines near the turn of the century -- but that shop certainly outlasted most of the Winchell's shops in town.

Winchell's, founded by the same enterpriser who started the Denny's coffee shop chain, has become scarce here in Northern California -- I don't know why, most folks of my acquint like Winchell's better than the newcomers in town, Krispy Kreme, whose recipe seems to be mostly air leavened with just enough sugar to shove one into a state of altered consciousness just short a diabetic coma.

I agree, Matthew, DD has changed their formula. I used to be a real fan - the coffee was pretty (very) good, and more importantly, the quality was consistent from store to store. Now it is not only not consistent, but unfortunately now it varies from "sucks' to "sucks really bad".

Their QC and overall quality went down the toilet about 6 months to a year ago.

I am no longer a customer.

Caribou Coffee is the best. Beats Starbucks' bitter butt. CC has not yet achieved national or world domination. Yet. It's just a matter of time. Exxxxxxcellent!

I vote for disliking Krispy Kremes. Yuck!

Dunkin Donuts are far better by a mile. Disclaimer: I haven't been for a while, there's not one anywhere near me. I usually pick some up from the store on the Buttermilk Parkway exit off I-75, just south of the Cincinnati airport (CVG) in northern Kentucky. I have no comment about the decline in quality in the last 6 months to a year.

My fave: maple!

Rant: the American addiction to high levels of sugar (as in their donuts) has rendered them incapable of enjoying a slightly sweet treat, the real British scone. What Starbucks sells as scones are obscene. They are just cookies/donuts remade as biscuits. Harumph. I make my own.

I like their black and whites, though, when I can find them. Rare in the South.

I don't know about other locales, but in my part of Michigan, WIFI spots are popping up so rapidly that it is no longer an advertising issue. Oakland County has plans to make the county wireless.

Caribou Coffee, one of my favorites, will never beat out Starbucks because CC doesn't see Starbucks as anything to try to beat.

Alsadius:

There are some Tim Horton's shops in Michigan, but they don't seem to fare well here for some reason. A couple were closed recently and they haven't seemed able to penetrate the market at all. Sad as Tim Horton's coffee is the best of any donut shop, period.

KK opened up several franchises in the Boston area with great fanfare. They got spanked by customer tastes, and retreated back below the Mason-Dixon line leaving several closed shops and a few depressed expat southerners with the kindergarten palate needed to "appreciate" KK's glazed donuts.

DD franchises seem to average about 1 per 15,000 residents in the inner suburbs of Boston, not counting MBTA station counters. They're probably more prevalent in the outer suburbs where there are fewer people and more driving commuters.

Unexpected city with a large cluster of Dunkin' Donuts: Barcelona, 1999.

Up here in Quebec, another chain Tim Hortons (owned by Wendys), has been eating Dunkin Donuts' lunch. On many corners, the DD has been closed, and a Tim Hortons opened nearby. Over 100 DDs have been closed in the last 10 years. The local franchisees were upset enough to sue the holding company (Allied Domeq).
http://www.foodservice.com/news/company_news_detail.cfm?id=6715&company_name=Dunkin'%20Donuts

Krispy Kreme came in with a lot of hype, but only ended up with crumbs.
The Canadian Franchisee declared bankruptcy.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/news/national/2005/06/10/krispykreme-050610.html

Up here, I'd choose DD for the coffee, KK for the donuts & TH for the proliferation of locations.

One of the best things about Dunkin' Donuts compared to trendy coffee shops like Starbucks is their total disregard for the tree-hugger types who insist that styrofoam is evil. DD puts their coffee in a nice styrofoam cup, which keeps it warmer way longer than the paper-cup-with-a-sleeve that Starbucks and their ilk use. Plus, the styrofoam cups seem to spill less than the paper.

Alsadius/ak47

Not a delusion. Follow US 23 further south to Columbus and then regardless if you take I71 or US 23 further south, the Tim Horton's have secured impressive beachheads and are routing KK and DD. Several of their drivethru's entrances are causing traffic problems during the morning drive period. Best of the various coffees, IMO, and good donuts.

1) Differences in coffee taste usually come to: A) leaving the coffee sitting in the pot on the burner for more than 18 minutes; B) not filtering the water; C) shorting the grind weight. (Flavor shots are an abomination......)

2) The reason Starbucks breakfast blend tastes like Dunkin coffee is that it's blended to give SBUX an entry into New England, (where there are 24 Dunkin's within 2 miles of my house in Providence, RI).

3) Dunkin' used to have a few stores in California. It cost more to support the stores than the income from franchise fees, so they gave the franchisees the option to withdraw about 12 years back. All except one guy in San Jose did.

4) The choice to put in wireless is up to the local franchisee.

5) Despite the name, Dunkin' is really a coffee company. Most shops bring their donuts in from a central kitchen. Independant shops usually make the donuts there, accounting for the often better quality of product.

6) The quality of the stores depends on the franchisee. SBUX runs the stores themselves. Dunkin', KK and Tims are franchised.

Krispy Kreme is following the famous trajectory of Boston Market into the public markets. It should be absorbed by some other entity which will eventually recover a little value from the shambles.

Tims is a highly profitable subsidiary of Wendy's, (which is being forced by activist/greedy shareholders to monetize the investment). They've done well in Canada, with high quality franchisees. In the US, not so hot.

As you may have inferred, I'm a former employee of Allied Domeqc, formerly parent company of Dunkin'. I'm not so sold on the "repositioning effort". Just make good coffee and sell it at a reasonable price, and that's all the position you need. When Bill Rosenberg founded Dunkin' Donuts in 1950, his intent was to sell "hotel coffee" to the average working man. Hotel coffee was the highest quality for the traveling businessman. The donuts were there to go with the coffee.

PS: what chair did you buy, Jane?

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