Asymmetrical Information

All the Liberal Arts graduates at "MoveOn.Org" and "Air America" had "Cool Jobs." They just didn't know if they would be paid one week to the next.

They still don't.

Is it intersting that peep are looking for "Cool Jobs", to be employed by others, rather than "Cool Avocations"?

I think, in the 'twain, lies the grand gulf, filled with reasons why so few are "successful" in finding anything "Cool"...

Re: the footnote: I realize it is light-hearted, but a possible boss-like rejoinder might be "Since you are getting so many non-financial benefits, and this is (as you admit) a very cool job that many other would love to have, I can pay you LESS, not more."

My solution was to wait until the final year of the engineering degree to have an emotional crisis and decide I was never going to be an engineer, but since I was already part-way through the year I may as well finish the degree off, and then switch from there into economics.

The combination of the two has allowed me to do all sorts of things.

Having a cool job is great, but there's a downside. I'm a tax accountant, and you wouldn't believe the number of groupies I've got to put up with. And the demands for autographs are, at times, unreasonable. If I only had a dime for every time I had to say, "Excuse me, lady, but I'm having dinner with my family.", well, I'd be richer than I already am. Despite these burdens, the thrill and excitement of tax practice make it all worthwhile.

i'm not really sure there are enough cool jobs to worry about this (leaving aside that one person's cool job is another's folly). many jobs that seem cool are in fact jobs like any other (shelving poetry is not inherently much more engaging than shelving plumbing supplies, reading bad movie scripts is about as bad as reading what's available at the dentist's office, etc.). whereas, many non-cool jobs that your privilleged liberal arts major might scoff at are surprising interesting. it's also hard to become an adult -- with adult responsibilities and worries -- and not begin to think that making more money than most cool jobs pay is itself pretty cool, regardless of what the job entails (yes, i know, the studies show money doesn't creat happiness, but there are pleasures to no longer eating ramen, having to worry about bouncing checks, etc.). so the better, non-cool (yet vaguely buddhist) advice might be to settle for whatever, regardless of how cool, and be happy not to be in the rat race for cool (cause i can't see how that's any different from the other, better recognized rat race).

Alright, I must be out of the loop here: Congrats on the "current enviable position," but what is it?

Here's another route: take a job in sales. Business-to-business sales jobs can be interesting, challenging, and lucrative. They can also be excellent stepping stones to executive jobs.

It's true that you have to have the right personality for it, but "right personality" for this field is more elastic than many people seem to think it is.

Competition for these jobs is significantly reduced by the old aristocratic/academic prejudice against being "in trade" and also by the residual effects of Willy Loman.

Here's another route: take a job in sales.

Here's another route: go rent Glengary Glenross. Then watch it before you ever try to sell, anything. You will never ever want to work in Sales.

I am convinced of two things: #1) if you have a product or a service that is priced appropriately and people really, truly NEED it, you wont have to sell it. People will come to you and simply buy it the way they do at Wal-Mart and #2) if you have a sales force, that is because you are trying to sell something that is over priced or your product or service is something that no one really NEEDS. Therefore, you must hire someone to convince someone else to buy something they don't really WANT.

There is no need for sales people. Everything can be (and should be) clerked. Just wave the infrared light pen over the bar code and you are done.

I have a really cool job. I'm a rocket scientist - chief engineer of a small space company. I got there through Route 5.

When people ask me how to get a good job, I simply repeat the best advice I ever got from a mentor: "Everyone's ship eventually comes in...the trouble is, most people are waiting for it at the airport".

The laws of probability work the same for everyone. The difference between "lucky" people and "unlucky" people is that the former are prepared to take full advantage of the occasions when chance happens to favor them, while the latter are too busy bitching about their lives to bother with making anything better.

There is no need for sales people. Everything can be (and should be) clerked. Just wave the infrared light pen over the bar code and you are done.

Nonsense. I do agree that that a sales force can be used to promote something nobody needs (and often is). But that doesn't mean that is its only use.

Sometimes a sales force can be a way of promoting something useful that isn't widely know about yet. Or it can be a way for a supplier/distributor to interact with potential retailers.

Or, in retail, it can be a way to ensure that when an average customer comes looking to buy 'x', they obtain 'x' and not 'n' that looks like 'x' but doesn't have all of the features the customer wants; and that the customer also obtains 'y' and 'z' that are not included with 'x', but will be required in order for 'x' to correctly function with the 'a' that the customer already owns. RadioShack, to name one, only remains with us today because the corporate stores and most better franchises focus on educating their salespeople this way, and some customers appreciate that instructional interaction in exchange for the slightly higher average price vis-a-vis WalMart/big-box/online.

Well, I went 2 and 4. But why, in Route 4, would he think of independence as merely a stepping stone -- an 'effective entree to some larger institution'? Seems nonsensical to me. Once you've made your own cool job, you don't need another one.

Oh, I agree that "Route 4" is often sufficient unto itself. But the graduates who are already confident writers, artists, performers, consultants, inventors, what have you, aren't looking for Cool Jobs or stressed about the issue for precisely this reason. Route 4 is for the graduate who wants to be a journalist or doing artistic design for an advertising firm or working for an interesting start-up, but has no idea how to become one of those things, qualify themselves for a job.

It's also clear, by the way, that luck plays a big role in anything. But I agree with Matt: luck doesn't find you if you're not out there trying to put yourself in a place where you can be found.

Why are so many seeking "a job"? Become the near-psychotic incompetent director of a non-profit organization and hire overqualified MBA's to do the real work for a pittance and no benefits.

Seriously, dream jobs are those that fit your personality. For some that's accounting, military fits some, others love construction, etc. You can aim for that managerial position, but if you are a self starting "get done yourself" type of individual, professional satisfaction will probably elude you.

I was a farm kid who got a chemical engineering degree and left the research lab to be a salesman. Great move because few engineers have the personality to do this job well.

Wouldn't a Cool Job blur the distinction between work and pleasure, eliminating the exhilerating anticipation of 'free time' that begins around noon on Friday?

No thanks, I'll embrace my grey flourescent freedom, pitying those coolly imprisoned and dreading the inevitable approach of the weekend.

#2) if you have a sales force, that is because you are trying to sell something that is over priced or your product or service is something that no one really NEEDS. Therefore, you must hire someone to convince someone else to buy something they don't really WANT.

Just because you're selling something no one really needs doesn't mean it can't be something they really want. Books, for instance. No one needs books to survive, and even if we did, there are plenty of books already in print. Why should booksellers take a risk on a new book?

Because many people WANT to read something new. Salespeople bring new books to the bookseller's attention. And since thousands of books are published each year, a salesperson can help prevent a good book from being overlooked. Cold Mountain was a bestseller because the jacket was so compelling, people picked up the book. But even a great jacket can't sell a book if it isn't in the stores. By showing the jacket to the bookseller before the book is printed, the salesperson makes sure the book is on shelves to sell itself.

I'm not a sales man, but my company hires "salesmen" aka, sales reps. They work with retailers to inform them of the new products coming out, etc. etc. I would agree that salesmen who sell direct to retail are usually pretty useless, but that's just because I can't think of a use for them at the moment.

But business to business sales reps, which is what I think the above poster was talking about when he praised sales are crucial to business. That you don't think so merely shows your lack of understanding for how the business world works. Grocery stores have "buyers", they have to interact with someone to buy all their inventory and know what's the new trends...likewise for every apparel/clothing store. Likewise for the manufacturer to buys raw materials...etc. etc.

"There is no need for sales people....Just wave the infrared light pen over the bar code and you are done"...somehow, this doesn't sound like a good way for people to buy things like machine tools & industrial robotics systems, million-dollar enterprise software systems, locomotives, or airliners.

In general, movies don't provide a particularly credible source for assertions about the real world.

With proper information technology (and a decent database server), you needn't even need a "buyer" to put merchandice on your shelves. Your entire purchasing department could be entirely automated to let you know when you are running low on a certian product. You can track everything, every piece, the way they do at Cost-co. All you need is one person who looks at a chart to determine if the manufacturer is selling the certain good at a low enough price that justifies it's purchase. If they are asking for too much money, pass, and go to the next manufacturer. No negotiation. No haggling. Simple as that.

Book sales? You are correct that people do not need books per se. But you do not need anyone to sell books either. You clerk books. They go over to the shelf and find what they want and bring it to the minimum wage, 15 year old, at the register. Just wave the infra-red light, have a nice day. Amazon.com is the largest bookstore in the world, and they don't employ any sales people who try to sell their books (or any clerks to work the register fo that matter.) They might employ sales people to try and sell advertising on their site but that is only because web advertising is a poor product/service that in ineffective and people don't really want or need it. If it really worked (the way advertising does on television and to a lesser extent, radio) then people would contact the website and ask to advertise on it. You wouldn't have to try and sell them. They would buy it.

Radio Shack? I worked there 14 years ago as a retail salesman. At every Radio Shack in America, every employee gets paid minimum wage unless they make commission. To make commission, you must earn more than what minimum wage would pay you for the number of hours you have worked. Some can earn more than minimum but most can't, which is why there is such high turnover at the retailers. Radio Shack retail sales people get 7% commission for everything in the store (the sell) from December 26th to the day before Thanksgiving. From the day after Thanksgiving to the day before Christmas, Radio Shack gives all it's employees a pay cut to 5.5% commission since they feel you would WANT to work in sales in a mall at that time since you will sell so much more as Christmas presents. Either way, the fact that there is a commission structure AT ALL at Radio Shack means the sales staff is motivated to sell you something that you don't really need or want that might be a higher price than what you should be paying. If you want to annoy them sometime, walk in and spend 30 minutes looking at the big ticket items, and then go over and buy a AA battery.

With the internet, there is no need for sales people, no need. Any one of us can do our research and find whatever we want, for the lowest price, and not pay a penny of commission to any human being to clerk that transaction. Life insurance, vacation timeshare, cars, real-estate, vacuums, vinyl siding, lawn service, all goods and services that once required sales people because information was not available or the transactions weren't automated, can now be done on-line if you really think you need something. The entire profesion of "sales" is as useful as buggy whip maker or a blacksmith. It's time is past.

"Your entire purchasing department could be entirely automated to let you know when you are running low on a certian product"...not exactly new: IT systems that track usage and generate purchase orders have been around since at least 1960 or so. And starting in the mid-80s, companies have been using electronic data interchange (EDI) systems which allow purchase orders to flow electronically from company A's purchasing system to company B's order entry system. Which is all very fine but has little to do with the decision to acquire a particular product line in the first place.

Note also that the purchasing software, the order entry software, and the EDI systems were and are sold by human salespeople.

My experience is that most jobs are at least a bit cool at first, but that nearly all become a drag after a few years. I've seen doctors who see patient after patient after patient, just going through the motions of acting concerned.

So my advice would be to plan on switching jobs every few years into whatever is interesting at the time. Within reason of course. It is also my experience that very few people have cool jobs. For most, its about making money - period. Cool is for hobbies. And you can switch hobbies as often as you like.

I have the coolest job. I'm an artist.

"...not exactly new: IT systems that track usage and generate purchase orders have been around since at least 1960 or so.

No, that isn't new. But what is new, is that even a small retailer with very little volume can afford a very nice, new, snazy IT system in the back room tracking every sale. And you don't need to talk to a salesperson to buy that server or tracking software today. Just use Google and Ebay, and you are all set.

Paul, it's clear that you know nothing about book publishing. It is true that sales reps aren't needed to sell books to individual readers. We can go into a bookstore and pick books off the shelves as you say. But who do you think buys the books that go on those shelves? The book buyers employed by B&N and other book retailers.

These buyers can't read every book published to decide what they should stock - my company will publish over 3000 books this year, and we're not even the biggest publisher in New York. Instead, our sales reps meet with the buyers and present only the books that are appropriate for each buyer. (For B&N, that's most of our list, but some of our high-end books just wouldn't interest Wal-Mart.) This makes the buyers' lives much easier, and means more sales for us.

You may think this relationship is obsolete, but I disagree. Because easy as it is to order books from Amazon, it's a bitch to browse there. And easy as it is for a buyer to reorder well-known books from a catalog, nothing can replace a conversation with a real, knowledgable person when trying to decide whether to buy many copies of a new book, or only a few, or none at all.

Radio Shack? I worked there 14 years ago as a retail salesman.

Same here, somewhat less than 14 years ago. First, you might have mentioned that the pay structure varies between corporate and franchise, and regional location, just like any other business. Second, employees can take training exercises designed to familiarize them with the store's various product areas. For completion of these, there are rewards or payroll incentives. There is also usually an employee discount.

The turnover problem, I as have seen it, is not a general problem but rather the use of high-school and college employees to fill in the lower eschelons of staff. These naturally have other commitments and a short attention span. Mature adult workers with a reasonable gift for diplomacy can, and do, last a very long time in these positions.

With the internet, there is no need for sales people, no need.

A better and more succinct summary of the narrowness in your perspective could not be found. You are speaking on behalf of a sales demographic that represents you. You enjoy using the Internet, have readiy access to it, and the capacity to do product research via that means. You don't mind having cold machines programmed to do all of the work, to the near-exclusion of human interaction.

Well, that's fine for you, and you have plenty of options for fulfilling that role. But you are not broadly representative of the businessman or the general public. Many businesses do use computerization where it is beneficial, especially in general inventory matters, but it is not always beneficial to completely eliminate the human element, particularly as regards its capacity for working with hunches and intuitive reasoning.

And unfortunately, the only advice I can offer is "be truly, amazingly lucky."

I think you might have ended up at the Econ another way, just a few months later than you did, as familiarity with econoblogs took off within the organization. I would say your blog functioned as a combination of Routes 1 and 3.

Now I -- who found a Mediabistro posting in 2000 and had no idea whether or not I was applying to someone with any sense of humor -- was excessively lucky. I used to say there was a lottery ticket with my name on it somewhere that got torn up when I got hired.

You are speaking on behalf of a sales demographic that represents you. You enjoy using the Internet, have readiy access to it, and the capacity to do product research via that means. You don't mind having cold machines programmed to do all of the work, to the near-exclusion of human interaction.

Well that is only part of it. What it mostly is, is that I find it quite distasteful and highly sinister to pay substancially more for a product or service than is absolutely necessary. If that means little to no human interaction, so be it.

Although you might take that last sentence verbatim in some other denigrating, personal assault against me in your next rejoiner, I doubt you will quote anything in this paragraph. The following will clearly explain why "sales people" (considering the nature of their compensation) never act on behalf of their client, since their paycheck is directly affected by how much overage they can extract from the buyer. I needed to buy some life insurance. What I really needed is what everyone needs, straight insurance protection in case I died. I did not need any kind of bundled plan that accumulated cash value since I already had my own retirement savings vehicle. That said I contacted two companies, Northwestern Mutual, and SBLI (Savings Bank Life Insurance.)

With Northwestern Mutual, a salesman paid me a visit. They offered so many different product lines, so many different insurance protections, so many different bundled benefits, but he waited until the very end to get to "pricing." When he did, he mentioned that a Whole-Life policy (for a $300,000 death benefit) would run me close to $235 a month. And I am not a smoker. I thanked him and took his card and sent him on his way. I then contacted SBLI. They did not have a variety of products, no bundled plans, nothing but unglamorous insurance protection. They did not send a salesman to my home to discuss the one product they had for sale, a term policy that would cost me X dollars per month, depending on how much the death benefit is and how long I plan to keep the policy. They simply clerked the potencial sale over the phone, $21/month fixed for 10 years, for $300,000 death benefit. No cash value, straight insurance protections.

I called back a "salesman" at Northwest Mutual and told him that I got a counter quote that was less than one tenth the price for the same death benefit. He knew immediately it was "term" life insurance. I asked him if he could beat that price on a term policy and he gave me some song and dance about that not being what is best for me. I told him that I know what is best for me, that I know what I need, and I asked him again if he could beat that price. He responded saying that in "looking out for me" that he would refuse to sell me a term policy, that SBLI was not acting on my behalf, and that he couldn't give me any term quotes. So I hung up the phone, called a phone rep at SBLI and she "clerked" the transaction over the phone.

The nurse hired by SBLI came by my house 3 weeks later to take my blood, and check my physical health. I talked to her about what happened with Northwest Mutual and she said that the reason why he wouldn't sell me the term policy is because the commission structure on a term life insurance policy product was so low that it wouldn't even cover the gas money for him to get to my house to have me sign the papers. There was nothing in it for him, but of course, he couldn't say that to me. He could just refuse to sell to me in the hopes that he could stonewall me into buying something that I didn't want or need.

Annony-mouse, you can extraplocate this experience over any product or service. You say that some people want human interaction. You say that some people are willing to pay for it. I say you are full of it because in my example, I would have had to pay 10 times the actual cost of what I was buying, just the priviledge of dealing with a human being who is acting on his behalf since he needs to put food on the table. No person in his or her right mind would have paid $235 a month (where only $111 each month accumulates cash value) when they could get the same insurance protection for just $21 a month. SBLI could afford to give me that protection because they didn't pay any commission to anyone.

We don't need sales people, period.

Did I miss something, or is Jane's "coolest job in the world" still journalism? In that case, I don't understand her footnote, because from what I recall of journalism salaries, the "cool job" factor has already been taken into account. Very much so.

Anony-mouse, let it go. Paul bought life insurance over the phone, so why shouldn't Boeing and Airbus just fire their sales staff and go to internet based ordering? Airlines could just input the number of jumbo jets they want, click on their desired accessories, and send payment via Paypal. What could be simpler?

Oh, wait a minute, I just realized Paul doesn't have the slightest concept of what's involved in making major purchases in a business to business environment. But he figures it must be kinda like buying term life insurance over the phone, right?

At any rate, carry on.

We don't need sales people, period.

From the perspective of the buyer (whether that buyer be a consumer or a business) this is arguably a valid way to look at things.

From the perspective of the seller, it's just pure idiocy.

What if, say, an advertising agency or consulting firm wants to grow its business by taking away market share from rivals? How is a firm that sells such types of business services supposed to accomplish this task? Perhaps through the power of prayer?

Again, you the buyer may not need a salesperson to sell you something. But most assuredly, the selling firm does. And as long as that's the case, there will be plenty of people who make a tidy living as salespeople because they're needed.

Of course, in higher level sales, the job title "salesperson" ain't exactly de rigeur. You might be getting a cold call from a Senior Account Executive, or a Director of New Business Development, or perhaps from a Regional Vice President. But the person on the other end of the line, no matter what his title, is a salesperson.

...why shouldn't Boeing and Airbus just fire their sales staff and go to internet based ordering? Airlines could just input the number of jumbo jets they want, click on their desired accessories, and send payment via Paypal. What could be simpler?

(shrugs shoulders)

And exactly what is wrong with this method of business? Think how much cheaper Boeing and Airbus could sell those planes if all orders were made over the internet? You don't have to play sales people, you don't have to send them all over the world to sales meetings, you have one price, the lowest price, the Airline Wal-Mart price.

I'm glad you choose Airbus and Boeing to make your point because I am about to use the Airline industry to make my point. You can buy tickets on Southwest Airlines by calling their toll free number or by going on line and booking on their website. If you go on-line, they pass the savings on to you because the tickets are cheaper than what you would pay over the phone. You are getting the real cost of the airfare minus the cost that the airline assumes by having human beings answering phones and entering the information. Same could be said with the manufacture of airplanes or any other multi-million dollar item.

What if, say, an advertising agency or consulting firm wants to grow its business by taking away market share from rivals?

Lower prices.

Paul,

When you're hearing from the "Gored Ox"-crowd, you know you're on the right track.

Lower prices.

Yes, but Paul, that strategy is likely not to be sufficient from the perspective of the seller. Which gets back to the real jist of your point: that you don't like salespeople, or don't believe you need them. But firms quite obviously do. Which is why they're not going away anytime soon.

Fascinating argument. I believe that Paul's statement can truthfully be transmuted to "Paul will never need to buy anything that requires a salesman to help with the decision to buy."

His immediate movement from the sales/purchase of a heavy product (airplanes) requiring thousands of man-years of effort to build, to a commodity like airline tickets, to make his point, shows all anyone needs to know about the conversation.

And exactly what is wrong with this method of business? Think how much cheaper Boeing and Airbus could sell those planes if all orders were made over the internet? You don't have to play sales people, you don't have to send them all over the world to sales meetings, you have one price, the lowest price, the Airline Wal-Mart price.

Hee hee!

Seriously Paul, think about it.

No, really, think about it.

As Twill00 points out, the construction of a Boeing 747 takes thousands of man-years. It's not like selling seats on an airplane. It's building the airplane. It requires long and extensive negotiations about just what the buyer's requirements are, what the plane's specs are going to be, how it will be built, when it will be built (Boeing, like all major equipment manufacturers, has a waiting list), terms and time for delivery, financing, earnest money, options and recourse if anything goes wrong, and -- of course -- the contractual guarantees that at the end of the day the buyer will actually pay (or be able to pay) the millions upon millions of dollars it takes to buy and build a jumbo jet.

It's not like ordering a cheeseburger at McDonald's, Paul. It's a major piece of capital investment that takes years and multi-millions of dollars to build. If Boeing or Airbus built their business around internet orders they'd end up spending billions of dollars building planes that no one would ever take delivery of. And then they'd be out of business.

Although you might take that last sentence verbatim in some other denigrating, personal assault against me in your next rejoiner, I doubt you will quote anything in this paragraph.

No, of course I won't: mainly because I'm not interested in derailing into yet another war of pluralized anecdotes.

I have enough collective experiences -- my own, and those of friends and relations -- in comparison to what you have revealed of your comprehension thus far, to KNOW that you don't really understand what you're talking about. That's good enough for me, and there's no point trying to convince you of my perspective by recounting those stories, since you evidently ground out your rut (and are loathe to jump it) quite a long time before I came around.

Annony-mouse, you can extraplocate this experience over any product or service.

No, I can't. That requires more callow arrogance than I care to muster just now.

I say you are full of it because in my example

Again, you merrily and repeatedly blast away at the feet of your case more effectively than anything I could come up with. If you really cannot see just how foolish that phrase is under the present context (and note how that phrase pretty much linchpins your entire post), then we really have nothing further to discuss.

I have a super cool job. But then I graduated in electrical engineering, not with a liberal arts degree. My suggestion: If you like the liberal arts so much, get a degree in engineering and then find ways to pursue your liberal arts interests outside of your day job.

And if you are analytically oriented, engineering can be an extremely rewarding field. This is kind of a well kept secret.

Oh, and there are lots of jobs and great pay!

Paul,

I buy term life insurance by phone or web. I reflexively distrust salespeople. I get angry at multilevel marketing schemes that pad prices. I bookmark price-comparison websites.

Even so, I have dealt with business-to-business sales reps who've added genuine value through information and insight. Some even seem to think that acting in the customer's best interest can be in their own long-term best interest: "building a relationship," and all that.

I hope that your experiences will soon include meeting some value-adding salespeople. While increasingly obsolete for self-educating buyers of commodity products, sales-by-human will have a place as long as there are other kinds of buyers and other kinds of products.

The renowned management consultant Mike Hammer has argued that the best preparation for business lies in the *combination* of a rigorous liberal arts program and an engineering or science program. My excerpt of his thoughts here.

I have enough collective experiences -- my own, and those of friends and relations -- in comparison to what you have revealed of your comprehension thus far, to KNOW that you don't really understand what you're talking about. That's good enough for me, and there's no point trying to convince you of my perspective by recounting those stories, since you evidently ground out your rut (and are loathe to jump it) quite a long time before I came around.

Waaaaaaaa...... for someone who claims to have enough collective experience, you are acting like a little boy having a tantrum. Stop your bellyaching. It's unbecoming.

Do you work in sales? Did I just denigrate your profession? If I did, too bad. Stop being a baby.

And if I didn't, then maybe you can calmly explain to me how a human being can add any value when another human being makes a purchase. All I see, is another human being that wants to get "his share" of this transaction, or else, why bother?

Nope. There is no need for sales people, none what-so-ever. If customers aren't beating down your door to buy everything you have to sell without you going to them to try and talk them into it, then either what you are selling is overpriced, its no good and valueless, or both it is over priced AND valueless. Money is of absolutely no value to people unless it is given away to buy something, so people are going to spend their money. The trick is to offer them something that they simply have to have at a price that makes it irresistible. If you can't do that at the company where you work, then get another job or get out of the private sector.

And if I didn't, then maybe you can calmly explain to me how a human being can add any value when another human being makes a purchase. All I see, is another human being that wants to get "his share" of this transaction, or else, why bother?

Is this an honest question, or just troll rhetoric?

I had this experience just last week. I was buying waders for trout fishing. As with most people buying waders, I had absolutely no idea of which features were important, quality of workmanship in different brands, or which companies stood by their products reliably and which weaseled out of warranties. The salesman happened to be a fishing guide who worked out of the store, and he quickly gave me all of this information. End result: within half an hour, I bought a very nice set of waders that I am completely happy with. I couldn't see myself being anywhere near as satisfied with any purchase I could have made on the internet without *a lot* more than half an hour of research, and *a lot* of research into people's satisfaction with different companies' return policies -- information that isn't trivial to come by. I'm more than happy to have paid the marginally higher cost to have a salesman involved in the transaction.

Bonus question: when I reached the river, my guide -- who as far as I know has never met the original salesman -- commented favorably on my waders as soon as he saw me from 20 yards away and mentioned that they were the same pair he would have bought. If you believe that internet research can fully replace talking with a salesman, I invite you to name the waders that I bought. I'll even spot you a huge lead by telling you that I settled on waders made of goretex, instead of neoprene or rubber.